Just thought I would add a few more comments from a tech perspective.
Consumer Reports, J.D. Power, etc. really grate on me because when something is logged on no one knows how a question is phrased, if a complaint has any legitimacy, etc.

The unknown story behind a complaint can sometimes be 180 off and does not reflect on vehicle quality at all. This occurs with any brand though, be it N. Amer., Asian, or European. Without going into details, a few examples.
1. Woman buys new car, thinks we are too expensive on an oil change, and proceeds to have the Jiffy Lube wipe her engine out an hour later. Whose fault? Us and the car itself.
2. Air Force officer curses his car because he ran it out of gas not once, but THREE times in less than 2 weeks. (Car ran great, no problems.)
3. Woman slides her 2 week old car on the ice and into the ditch, ruining the RF fender and suspension. Curses car because warranty won't pay for it.
4. Gentleman buys new car, has early oil change at the JL, which omitted the drain plug gasket leading to a leak. 10k miles later (after never checking the oil or changing it again) the engine blew up. Whose fault? The car of course.

I've got a million of those and this is why CR, Power, and whatnot leave a bit lacking. One never knows why those complaints are lodged.

If one compares a new SAAB owner to a new Honda owner you can bet that the SAAB guy is going to be much more nitpicky, even over perceived problems that do not exist, and will have more of a tendency to complain.

One time a very well to do lady bought a new conversion van from us (weird match to be honest) and decided after 3 or 4 days that this van was a royal PITA to jockey around in city traffic. She brought in it with not one, but FIVE complete repair orders full of complaints (about 35-40 gripes altogether). About 2 were legit; the rest was carping over nothing. She then demanded we take the van back at full price and when this did not work she was standing on the side of the 4 lane at 7 the next morning waving at every car and holding a large 4 x6 sign with a lemon painted on it.
Wonder how she replied to CR? :-)

As I've stated before, I think the Asians build fine cars but the domestics get trashed unnecessarily. Domestic trucks are extremely popular where I live for example and believe me, these trucks take a beating due to high mileage, environmental conditions, and the fact they're generally pulling heavy loads (1 ton hay bales, stock trailers with half a dozen steers, etc.). If these vehicles were trouble prone I assure you these chintzy farmers and ranchers would not be buying them and the BBB would be clogged with complaints. That is not the case.

The lack of checks on validity of complaints is especially important to note when you look at the rates of failure at issue. According to Consumer Reports' own data, almost every system on 1 year old cars has a 1% or lower failure rate. The highest rate is just 3%.

When you combine that with their sample sizes of around 300 per model per model year, the actual complaint rates in each system are so low that we're talking just 1 or 2 complaints comprising the entire list of complaints for an AVERAGE new car....

VERY WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just to add. The absolute biggest reason I've seen for people dissing their cars has been because they discover that "warranty" will not pay for oil changes, scheduled maintenance, etc.

I can't even count how many times I've seen this. For some reason many people assume, incorrectly, that "warranty" pays for those things and when reality hits, the complaining, cursing, BBB complaints, and threats to consumer agencies start.
I've seen people threaten to quit making their new car payments because of a simple oil change not being paid for. So what. Don't pay and the repop guy will be after the car.

There aren't many (read any) Tundra/Tacoma snow plow trucks where we live, regardless of their "superior" reliability. Availability or parts, warrentee, and initial set up options and local dealers are my neighbor's reasons (snow removal business) for staying with Amrican trucks. Very few if any Dodges by the way.

I would imagine that that might holds true for farmers and other businesses as well. It's cheaper buying an "American brand" truck under warrentee that can be serviced quickly, than waiting around for parts for a Toyota, even though the repairs may be less frequent.

Chevy/GMC dealers out number Toyota deakerships in this area, so guess what. More trucks bought for bussinesses from them. One Toyota dealership in 50 miles, gives you too few options.

Other reasons NOT to buy the most reliable product.

Um, I hate to mention this, but Hyundai is NOT a Japanese brand. Hyundai is a Korean brand.

You needed help from a "mechanic guy" to change the spark plugs in your A6. Understandable. Why do you complain when this "guy" tells you Japanese cars are easier to work on? Especially since your other car is NOT Japanese?

Think before you post.

Um, I hate to mention this, but Hyundai is NOT a Japanese brand. Hyundai is a Korean brand.  

I don't see where he ever said Hyundai was a Japanese vehicle. He just said his mechanic friend told him Japanese vehicles are easier to work on. Never said HIS JAPANESE car was easier to work on.

My experience is mixed. I last owned an Chevy Impala in the 80s and swore that I would never buy another American care: the transmission disintegrated at 30,000 miles and the replacement from a Chevy dealer never worked right; and the engine disintegrated at 85,000 miles leaving me stranded in Las Vegas and having to rent a car to get home. I tried a Mitsubishi Galant and its transmission went wrong about 35,000 miles in and although replaced by the dealer never worked correctly. I then bought a new Honda 1988 Accord and still have it--a wonderful car that still has everything original and has needed few repairs. Encouraged by the Accord, I bought a new 2001 Honda EX. I have been disappointed with this car. I had to have the transmission replaced at about 30,000 miles, the fuel injectors clogged, the outside remote mirrors both have had to be replaced at abou $300 each, the heater smells to high heavens, and the brake rotors warp repeatedly.
So, my conclusions are: never to buy another American car; never buy another Mitsubishi; and I am leary about buying another Honda. It seems to me that no car is made very well these days.

Sounds like you have some string of bad luck.

Never any serious issues owning a domestic(Jeep), German(VW) or Japanese(Subaru, Honda) vehicle. All said I don't really think any were any better or worse than the other with regards to reliability.

Buy what pleases you so you will be more motivated to maintain it and drive it carefully.

I have driven a Toyota MR2 for 225,000 miles. Without babying it and without having to ever change a major component. The only things changes were Alternator, shocks and Water Pump. Even in its last days, I never thought twice about driving it from Illinois to Florida and back ever. That car never stranded me and the three components that failed after 190,000 miles gave me plenty of warning before doing so.
And now I drivc a Ford, so go figure!!
Are American cars getting better, definitely yes. But they still suffer from the decision making by accountants rather than engineers.
The only segment that has really lost it is the Europeans. After 1994 Mercedees has managed to work itself into the bottom pit of quality and customer satisfaction. Two of my friends have owned Audis, and both have been stranded in new vehicles atleast once. And the dealerships are very arrogant and tough to deal with.
I would say, save your money and get a Ford or a GM car if you dont plan on keeping it forever. If you plan on long ownership, you cannot beat Japenese (Toyota & Honda). But whatever you do dont throw away your money at the European vehicles.

A two year old American car is actally a good buy for a retired person who will drive very little, and wants parts to be available for the next 15 years or so. Very few senior citizens will wear out a Ford Taurus or Chevy Impala.

Maintenance and repairs will be reasonably prioced, and the reduced reliability will not be much of an issue if you don't have to show up for work.

Japanese cars make the most sense for high mileage drivers and those that cannot tolerate downtime.

If this is damming with faint praise, so be it!

I would agree with you. And recent American Cars have been good at not stranding you.

TRUE

My opinion: GM, Ford, Chry., are good for any driving 1st 3 yrs. Local driving only 3-4 yrs old. At 5 yrs. 90K miles, sell it. I have a '96 Toyota Tacoma, 99 percent original parts, 215,000 miles in the Chicago area and I wouldn't hesitate to get in it and drive to California and back. Just normal maintenance by their book. It is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.

With a hypocritical and largely ignorant way, i have not read all the posts however would expect ones to reach this far #113 as i currently write and read about what i think is a rather large, overlooked (don't know, haven't read other posts) factor in this argument.
No doubt to all those reading and writing have heard at some point or another about the reliability of Japanese cars, their projected longevity, and their small upkeep contributions. It was a fact in the past and there is endless data to support it. Truth of the matter is that as much as we like to bang our chests in self-accomplishment of how far american branded automobiles have progressed in the aforementioned fields, the improvements that "we" have made have barely kept pace with improvements of the Japanese cars. Point being, with the exception of a few aging examples, anyone can agree that generally speaking the reputation of the Japanese brands has always been of high regard and somewhat of a "nude" model in our 7th grade sex-ed class. (Don't know but maybe today its done at the 4th grade level- How sad)
I agree there are arguments and instances where one can point out successes in our domestic vehicles and out-performance over the oriental competition. They are largely out-numbered, and represent the common passive attitude "Hey, at least we didn't get any worse!"
Well, whatever the case may be, let's assume that there is a Ford Accord(rolls nicely off the tongue doesn't it?) or maybe a Dodge Tundra. Ha!! In an even playing field such as this, there is NO-one that would be able to contest the fact that a car has a limited lifetime, provide essentially the same transportation, and lastly cost money. Again, assuming the first variable is the same accross the board, and the second one being trivial, lets look at the money part of it. I mean let's reeeaaallly look at it. Open up your payment coupon, or buyer's order for the car (assuming everyone has a basic understanding and knowledge of how to not get taken advantage of) and we would agree that based on the class of car and purpose, cars all cost about the same nowadays american or japanese. Either domestics have increased in price, or japanese ones are now somewhat of a bargain, who knows? -i dont care. Maintenance costs: Imported cars will generaly be more expensive, however for regularly scheduled service, its about the same. Remember now, longevity and repairs we are assuming to be equal. So we bought the car for the same, paid the same to maintain it, now comes the most emotional part- Geting rid of it. Any mother out there can tell you that having your child leave for college or the military can be dramatic and teary. I've met people who reacted the same about cars! I'm sure those who have owned 200K+ mileadge cars will agree that it had, or at least you considered giving it a name, required loving care with duct tape and glue, and beleived in its personality and character, despite how weather had tarnished its once appealing make-up. No car looks good when its old, we all feel the need to eventually keep up with the Jones' and upgrade to something a little fancier, perhaps the new DVD technology or creature comforts available today. Little Timmy won't throw a boredom tantrum anymore on the way to grandma's. Above denying children the rightful act of discipline and humbleness, i imagine that we should go further and make it easier for them to drop out and one day literally live in a car down by the river. Anyways, back to the point. So we are at the time of "trading-in" your beloved Betsy. No one will love Betsy the way you do and at the time of deal negotiations it will fel like a slap in the face when a dollar amount is revealed for your beloved. You may want to argue or explain this, or emphasize that, and no matter what, at one point you will face the fact that a car is not an investment. If it was, we'd be bankrupt to say the least. But IF it were an investment, reports, auctions, and research will conclude that Japanese vehicles "hold" their value significantly better than domestics. It really is astonishing to see the figures, pull it up sometime. FYI, The last bodystyle Ford Taurus (once an american icon for the middle class 2.3 children household affluent family) lost over 50% of its value in a 6-month window. I could get a better return seling molded bread (Some people will actually appreciate the ergot-led psychadellics). Seriously, case-matter point, this variable describes it all. KBB supports it, Edmunds, JDP, and every consumer survey and transaction. If both of these cars are similarly reliable, and cost the same, why such a drastic difference in their depreciation? Well i could demean the domestic product endlessly, think about your justification, their not hard to come by. But DEPRECIATION or lack thereof (Import Hybrids to a degree) is the reasoning and explanation of why so many people praise and stand by their trusty Corolla or Civic and not by their sled-like Taurus or Cavalier. Any person that does not agree with that, must really think about getting into a relationship with something that grows hair.

I agree with most of your dissertation, except for the longevity part. True, owners of mid size and large US cars have gotten some impressive mileage out of them. However, in the smaller car category, the Japanese cars shine since these are their FULL SIZE CARS in most overseas markets, and durability is of prime importance. To even suggest that a Dodge Neon or Chevy Cavalier will last as long as a Honda Civic is just wishful thinking.

My wife's friend is trying to sell a very clean Dodge Neon since they are downsizing, and nobody seems to want it. The last repair on this car cost $1400.

In other words, a Taurus, Impala or Crown Victoria will last a long time if you put some new parts into them and do regular maintenance. The same is true for US pickup trucks.

If you do a detailed and disciplined life cycle cost analyis, you might find a 3 year old low mileage Taurus (very cheap) to be a better buy than a 3 year old Honda Accord (very expensive). If you have to buy a new car evry 3 or 4 years, then a Japanese car is definiely cheaper because of the higher resale value.

Point i was trying to make was to assume, as others have argued, that dependability is becoming equal between domestic and japanese vehicles. That is a discussion based solely on opinion and personal experience. It is not the intent of the post i wrote to favor either side in that respect; however, i agree with your comment and your stand in regards to the longevity. Fact remains, the depreciation in regards to the two types of vehicles in reference is not based on opinion and/or experience and is a more substancial and supportive argument that Japanese cars are the ones to favor.

Arguing that depreciation is an indicator of reliability is about as weak of an argument as you can make.

There are MANY factors affecting depreciation. One such factor is the availability of used vehicles. The Ford Taurus you use as an example is a perfect fit for this. A very large percentage of Taurus sales were to fleets, particularly rental fleets. As a result, you have a glut of used 1-2 year old used Tauruses on the market used. Simple economics will tell you this will depress resale values.

There's also the factor of simple *PERCEPTION*. No one who ever has stated that depreciation indicates reliability has EVER been able to explain why the Chevrolet Prizm routinely sells for a fraction of the price of a Toyota Corolla.

Well stated. I would like to know where in my argument did i relate the two. In fact time and time and again i emphasized that we are assuming they are equally as reliable. Having this and other variables the same as you state, which one would you buy? You're right about the perception aspect. I understand your point about the Prizm/Corolla, same thing that happened with the Isuzu Trooper/Honda Passport and the Dodge Colt/Mitsubishi Mirage. There are very few cases proportionally though. How do you think this perception came about though? Thin Air? In the 60's and 70's you would be laughed at if you were drivin "one of 'em Jap cars". Well i kinda nowadays laugh at those driving American Sleds. Did the Japanese cars improve their reliability and reputation, or have the American brands decrease theirs?

BTW as for your rental fleet argument: You will find that an increasing number of car rental companies, Hertz or Avis for example are expanding and replacing their fleet vehicles to accomodate more imported brands i.e. Camry's and Accords. Have you seen changes in their resale values? Honda and Toyota has outsold itself every year running, making more cars than ever before... Are they flooding the market? As a dealer rep, we sold 300 Hondas a year to Hertz, that was just my dealership. Still, resale value of those cars remained the same. Toyota sells countless Tacomas to business fleets, yet it has the highest resale value amongst small p/ups. Why is that? you think these companies are making bad business decisions? Do you think they are trying to get a better return on their purchase? Simple economics will go only so far shortyoh. Fact remains, as you say, PERCEPTION is the true culprit and large part of depreciation- not through increased supply, but the lack of demand. That perception though is a result of the brands' reputation and reliability history....can argue that?

Agree that resale value is mostly supply and demand, the demand being the result of mostly perception and hype. Reputation as a result of reliability is important too, of course.

A good example is Mercedes vs Lexus. A used Mercedes fetches a highe price in spite of the poor reliability and very high maintenance cost. Most Asian Amercians, for example, strongly prefer Mercedes over, say, Lexus, regardless of how much it costs to keep it running. How long this reputation will last is anyone's guess. Similarly, Land Rover models have high resale value.

Classic Mustangs were very poorly constructed, but kept up their resale value until they fell apart.