Since ethanol contains less energy than gasoline, your gas mileage will definitely drop--perhaps as much as 15%. As to the motor oil, does the Owner's Manual actually say that a "special kind of motor oil" must be used without giving some examples of the type of oil or the specification that it must meet?

What exactly does the manual say regarding the motor oil to be used when fueling the car with E85? If it only says "a special kind of oil" without giving any examples of what that means, then that is a poor example of an Owner's Manual!

People always complain about the milage of ethanol but cars optimized for ethanol get the same mileage or better. There are Japanese cars being made to run on both gas or ethanol and get the same mileage. The current problem is the horrible way that the flex fuel vehicles are designed.

If you want to make other complaints about ethanol go ahead but don't complain about mileage unless you are making those complaints to the car manufactures.

Read below information:

http://en....ontroversy

"Using 100% ethanol fuel decreases fuel-economy by 15-30% over using 100% gasoline; this can be avoided using certain modifications that would, however, render the engine inoperable on regular petrol without the addition of an adjustable ECU.[125] Tough materials are needed to accommodate a higher compression ratio to make an ethanol engine as efficient as it would be on petrol; these would be similar to those used in diesel engines which typically run at a CR of 20:1,[126] versus about 8-12:1 for petrol engines.[127]"

Changes in design can decrease the ethanol penalty, but I doubt if it can eliminate it as ethanol has less potential energy than gasoline to start with.

It is true that ethanol has less potential energy than gasoline, however, it is not true that you can't eliminate the penalty. In fact, because of the higher compression ratios in an ethanol engine, you actually will get better gas mileage with the lower potential energy fuel. What's that mean? There is less potential energy to start with, but more kinetic energy to end with. So, not only is ethanol primarily using free energy given to us by the sun, it takes less of it to do the same thing (so better gas mileage means cheaper to fill up at the pump, filling up less often, etc).

Since E85 contains less energy per gallon than gasoline, you'll see a reduction in fuel mileage when used. As much as a 30% reduction. I also recommend that you read the owners manual for the vehicle for any special service instructions when E85 is used in the vehicle.

And by the way, that special motor oil that's required can only be obtained from the dealer. Which is not cheap!

Tester

To sum up the first two responses, it will almost definitely cost you more to run the van on E85, both in fuel and maintenance (oil).

Yes, as others have pointed out, you will get MUCH WORSE gas mileage. The E85 configuration makes little sense, since that fuel will not be available nation-wide.

The car companies thought they would get credit for the 85% on their CAFE standards, i.e. the car only would use 15% of the fuel it actually uses. George Bush would have caved in to this, but cooler heads prevailed. It would be like getting credit for a plug-in hybrid ian an area where there is no electricity.

Environmentally, E85 is a bad deal, and it takes valuable cropland away from food production. The secretary general of the UN is now crying for a worldwide food shortage to be addressed.

Go to the Dealer. Buy one quart of the "special" oil. Read the ratings on the bottle. Take to several parts stores. Get info from them about which one of their oils match the ratings of the "special" oil from the dealer. Now this is not meant as blasphemy, then go to a quick lube place or two. Speak with the Manager. Ask him/her what oils they have that match the Dealer oil specs. Do not tell any of these places that you've spoken to anyone else. If they all say that it's a "dealer item", then I guess that you're stuck with paying the Dealer for the oil. DO NOT have any work done at the quick-lube joints. (See! I told you that I wasn't being blasphemous!). You can also check at Wally World, but the same warning: don't let 'em do any work. If they have comparable oil, just buy the oil and change it out yours3elf or have a trusted friend or independent shop do it. Don't forget to change the engine oil filter at every oil change. Stay away from FRAM oil filters. J.M.O. about the filter.
Once you've tracked down the right special oil, take the bottle back to the Dealer and get a refund. Just don't open the bottle.

Well, I wouldn't trust most of those folks to give me application data for oil. but if you run your specific car through the Mobil 1 website, you can see what they recommend:

http://www...x?option=2

I believe you will find that there is some plain old mobil 1 available that meets your car's specifications. It's cheap and available everyplace.

Fram oil filters work very well for me; have for many years and many miles. I have one car as of now well over 225,000 miles with Fram oil filters used since 50,000 miles. Please provide evidence to indicate that Fram oil filters should be stayed away from. Eyeball inspection won't work.

This is just a taunt as this topic comes up repeatedly and the final answer is always inconclusive. No, I don't have a financial interest in Fram; just want Car Talk advice to be objective.

I just saw something interesting about a fram filter in another forum, this is why I only use OEM filters:

http://www...ost1877100

That's the first filter I've EVER heard that happen to. Every filter is going to have some problem some day. And since Fram out sells almost all it's competitors COMBINED, there are bound to be some problems.

If my wifes Lexus is the way manufacturers are going...the problem that guy had won't be an issue in the future. The filter on the Lexus is a canister filter. All you do is replace the paper filter element. The canister is part of the car you just take off...replace the paper filter and the new seals (they come with the filter) and put the canister back on.

This is a "canister type" filter, for a 1985 617 engine (as opposed to those silly screw-on filters that are/were popular on domestics, do they still use them?). I don't care about the whole "fram debate" myself, I just posted the link for info. Some of these guys are really into dissecting various brands and trying to determine how well they are made, including the differences between countries of origin within the same brand (the "tribal knowledge" for this specific filter model was that fram filters from turkey were good quality). I don't have any first hand experience with all the fram horror stories either.

Personally, I just use OEM filters (usually hengst or mann); they are fairly cheap and they work. I replace them every 5K miles and have never had a problem. I'm sure that 99.9% of all filters sold are just fine, regardless of brand.

Many years ago I had a Fram leak at the seam. It's been OEM (Honda, Toyota) for me ever since.

E85 is a failure. You'll get worse mileage, pay more for your special oil, and you'll pay more for your food at the grocery store. Don't use it please, for the good of us all.

It will end up costing more than just using regular unleaded gas, but if you don't mind paying more, I like the idea of supporting US farmers instead of supporting the oil companies. I say go for it.

The high food prices we pay are only minimally affected by E85 use. There are other causes for our high food prices that are not going away. The prices we are paying for food are the result of several factors that all converged at the same time. E85 is just one of them.

I have no problem with bio-fuels in general, but E85 is not a useful product (economically or environmentally). It will eventually go away anyway, in the mean time I have no interest in supporting farm welfare.

A lot of farmland and farms are now owned by large corporations...

That's what people like you say when you don't know the facts. Most family farms are incorporated. They have to be or otherwise the government would tax the farm out of existence everytime someone died in the family.

Yes, today's farms are large in comparison to what they were in the 1940's. Why? Back then 80 something percent of the population lived and worked on farms. Today it's less than 2% and half of them don't want to work. Farming is work and the vast majority of us don't want anything to do with it. Eat your 3 meals a day and be thankful someone supplies it for you, or be my guest, go get your own mule and plow and get to work.

Skipper

Regardless of ownership, I have no interest in buying a useless product to support them.