You sound like an local station owner who doesn't honor his contract with his supplier. 

No, NYBo sounds like a respected member of this forum who knows what he is talking about, contrary to you...on both counts. If you could accept and respond to new ideas, that would be a positive change.

I have never owned a station, and the last time worked in one was 1982. Things have changed a lot since then. Just follow a tanker around. It will stop at stations of different brands making deliveries.

One way to help is to buy the cheapest gas that meets your standards. Look at gasbuddy.com
put in your zip code and find the best deal. Also, you can post to this as a visitor, you don't have to register. It helps me.

When you look at what the Wall Street hedge funds take for their share of the fuel market, what the govt takes, what the credit card companies take, what the banks take, dividens paid out to oil investors, it makes the oil profits look pretty small. It is just a bunch of new Enrons with different names.

You would think the oil companies would not have to pay off so many people to operate a business.

There is about four layers of bumpkins who need to get out of the market.

You follow tankers around on a regular basis? Really? You are the person wasting all the gas!!!

Granted, I've noticed your postings are quite prolific and you seem knowledgeable. I'm beginning to realize why most Europeans are driving fuel sipping TDI vehicles (and have a strong dollar) and us Americans are driving gas guzzlers and our dollar is in the toilet. We can't change our thinking or think out of the box, or try anything without a lot of unnecessary criticism and naysayers. Obviously I've got a few oil company lovers out there who refuse to even question what is going on.

Never mind, I'll find a group that gives a damm.

And by the way, the reason it appears that tanker deliverys are all being done by the same company is that 1.) Many refiners have outsourced delivery and 2.) Company emblems have come off of company delivery trucks as when they are involved in accidents, the negative publicity is enough (depending on when and where) to make a stock price plummet for a day. I can assure you that branded stations are buying branded gas. To suggest otherwise is out and out ignorance.

I was referring to the same tanker making deliveries to different stations on the same day. However, you are absolutely right about the corporate-owned stations. They have no choice but to purchase their gas from that corporation. But that corporation can and does sell to other stations, mainly smaller independents. Hence the futility of trying to hurt that corporation. If total usage doesn't drop, they'll just sell it to the other stations down the street that don't have the "stigma" of the corporate name on its signs. Might this be why Exxon/Mobil recently announced they are getting out of the retail gasoline business by selling off its stations?

You've offered nothing that hasn't been floating around for a couple of years in chain letter e-mails, something that defies the laws of economics.

And who might these "oil company lovers" be? Don't count me as one.

I do agree, nothing so very new. And I'm not touting my knowledge, I'm just looking for a common sense solution to enforce some type of corporate responsible behavoir in the US Oil industry. Perhaps these chain letters are having impact though as EM would be top on my list of oil companies that don't have the public's interest at heart in any fashion. Perhaps a part of the US has already started boycotting the company if there retail business is already in trouble. I'd be surprised. I've not bought fuel from them for many years, but for a different reason. Right, understanding complex problems is not easy. But sometimes simple outside the box solutions do create change rather quickly. The balance sheets I've examined that show coporate profit and precentage of re-investment is pathetic. Does anyone think the oil companies have been acting responsible as of late?

Yes, there is a lot of behavior that needs to change. The soccer mom example is an excellent one.

And I started this line of discussion because I want my TDI which gets great mileage, and I don't see a reason why diesel fuel has risen so dramatically in the US as of late, unless of course, it's a pre-emptive, pre-meditated act to discourage TDI purchases or find a way to equally profit on fuel purchase for very efficient fuel-sipping vehicles. Let's not forget that clean diesel was mandated years ago, and delayed and delayed.

And, I wasn't counting YOU in as one of the "oil company lovers".

And I'm not touting my knowledge....I don't see a reason why diesel fuel has risen so dramatically.... 

Perhaps that is part of the problem. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to make oil companies treat us fairly. It does, however, take a basic understanding of macroeconomics to know that oil companies are not doing anything wrong. They get paid by their customers to provide a highly demanded product. They are providing a product for which we are willing to pay. They are not treating us fairly or unfairly. Their decision to provide a product we want is morally neutral and I personally consider it useful.

I am not a lover or oil companies, but I understand enough about how the economy works to know they are not the problem. The problem is that some people have bestowed upon themselves the moral authority to think they are being mistreated because fuel is expensive.

Here is an idea that can gain some traction. If you want to affect positive change, target an oil company and execute a hostile takeover. If you don't have the financing or resources to take over the oil company, accumulate some wealth or study to become a CEO or a board member. Take over the company from the inside and run it as you think it should be run. If those plans are too grand for you, you could buy some stock in the company. That would give you some voting rights to elect the board of directors (one vote per share).

It won't take a rocket scientist to affect change, but it will take some specialized knowledge. So go off and accumulate the knowledge to create positive change. Those heroes who affect positive change rarely solicit approval from strangers online.

Perhaps these chain letters are having impact though as EM would be top on my list of oil companies that don't have the public's interest at heart in any fashion. 

Nope, those e-mails are spoofs and they have the same chance of being effective as your idea. Please see http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp and http://www.../nogas.asp for proof.

What you suggest in not possible for most Americans. If the only way to change bad corporate behavior is to take over a company, then there is no hope for the masses.

You are right on one count. Heroes are rare these days. And even heroes need help on occasion. Not that even remotely think that I am one or capable of being one. I honestly feel very sorry for the people who are being hurt by the oil companies greed. My only motive.

We can't change our thinking or think out of the box.... 

Lots of ideas come from outside the box, some good and some bad. Thinking outside the box is a good idea if you understand the problem. Good luck with that.

Rants may make everyone feel better, but there is nothing permanent to be done about oil prices. China and India arent going to stop development. Tree huggers, fish lovers, caribou lovers arent going to let anyone drill. No community is going to allow a refinery to be built even if they could drill. Expanding existing refineries is a regulatory exercise. I still dont see much conservation: SUVs still run 85mph going nowhere. Most drivers are either standing on the gas or standing on the brake, racing to the next light. What will it take? $6.00? $8.00? $10.00? Facts will not change anyones habits. The only thing that will change our addiction is $$$. The U.S. auto industry still doesnt get it after 40+ years since VW started writing on the wall. Now that there is a slight lull in the crazy price increases is the time to incrementally add a $2-3 tax per gallon to put the brakes on our foolish consumption.

Wow, Doc, that one seems to have hit a raw nerve! I've never seen you respond with such.........enthusiasm!

Now, my opinion. The best way to beat them is to develop/find better and more efficient ways to transport ourselves and heat our homes.

Start by inventing a vehicle specifically for commuting, perhaps a comfortable, laid back trike, single seater, highly stable (two wheels in front with a wide stance, one in back). Perhaps a nice V-twin capable of highway travel at, say, 50 to 60 mpg. And affordable...no frills except a cowling...just good transport. Under $5,000. Then mass market it specifically for commuters. I want one. Please.

We haven't even explored all the real options in gas engine transport yet.

And yes, we need to tap currently untappable (due to regulations) oil resources such as ANWR in the interim.

Now how do we get all those suburban soccer moms out of their SUVs?

"Now how do we get all those suburban soccer moms out of their SUVs?"

Mountainbike:

I think that I might be able top what you have seen! For several months, on my morning commute, I spotted three different different women who would drive their precious little darlings a-a-a-l-l-l the way from the house to the bottom of their driveway--a total of about 50 ft. in each case--and then sit in their vehicles, with the engine idling while waiting for the arrival of the school bus.

The vehicles in question were a Chevy Suburban, a Ford Expedition, and a Ford Windstar, and the area in question is in a semi-rural area of Central NJ. Just imagine the gas that was wasted by idling the engines of these vehicles every morning. On a few occasions, I was in back of the school bus, so I was able to witness all three mommies backing their vehicles up the driveway after precious was allowed to exit mommy's car in order to board the bus.

If these incidents occurred exclusively on very cold days, or very wet days, I might be able to understand this behavior to some extent, even though I cannot imagine children (apparently somewhere in the 10-14 year old age range) being babied in this fashion. These kids could have stood near the roadway for a few minutes until their bus arrived. If they felt that they needed to stay warm or dry, they could have waited on their respective enclosed porches for the arrival of the bus. Instead, they were chauffered 50 ft. or so, and were sheltered in an idling vehicle, rather than allowing them to stand outside for a few minutes


Not only are we creating a nation of wimps, but we are squandering gas as we create those wimps!

People in my old neighborhood used to do this. Silly, isn't it?

Mountainbike, you are on the right track. The market will eventually segregate into small commuter and local errand cars with very high mileage, and more traditional family cars with very good mileage as well. Our car fleets will look more like the rest of the world then.

Alternative power plants, however will take a long time to arrive. Fuel cells will first be applied to busses and delivery vehicles. A hydrogen economy is still along way off.

I'm actually looking for that trike. I might have found something from a neophyte company in southern CA called the TriRod. I'm wating for the brochure to come in the mail. The website was impressive but lacking in some critical specifics.

positive change:

actually you have a misconception about deliveries of petroleum.

i AM the tank truck driver you are referring to on the previous page.
i routinely deliver many gallons. sometimes i start out with the load being owned by one customer. by the time i arrive at my destination the ownership of the load has changed hands multiple times. sometimes i have been turned around (for instance half way from new york to providence i have been rerouted back to new haven to dump the whole load) so the customer has changed, the destination has changed, and the terminal has changed. the only thing that has remained constant is that the product is still 4,000,000 gallons of gasoline (of whatever octane)

so, how does this equate to the thought that one product is delivered from one terminal to one station? there is NO truth to the (though well intentioned) thought that in a utopia world one name brand actually means one name brand from refinery to station. it just ain't so!

you would be surprised how many times i have discharged half a load at mobil, then slid across the river to (texaco, shell, getty, global, citgo, fill in the blank) and visa versa. get the big picture?

4,000,000 gallons of gasoline (of whatever octane)??????????????????????????????

You must have made just a minor mistake in your zeros. I'd like to see a 4,000,000 gallon tank truck. Are you sure you are over 13? Nasty, I know, but come on man. Those trucks hold about 8,500 gallons. Thanks for the laughter. It made be realize that the internet is not the forum for change, unless of course, it's for reference. I give up, you will probably be paying $50 per gallon for gas when you are old enough to drive.