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Garage vs Outside

I live in Fairbanks Alaska where the long winter temperatures are quite harsh. I would like your opinion whether it is better for the vehicle to be parked in a heated garage or left outside in the winter. Condensate formed inside the PCV valve, damaging it and ultimately causing serious oil leaks through various gaskets (here, humidity levels are higher inside the building than out). This was a consequence of parking inside that I did not anticipate and now I am not certain what option will best prolong the life of my vehicle. Thoughts?

Posted by: ehelme
by: MikeInNH 02/19/2008 9:55:27 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Garage vs Outside

I've lived all my life in the NorthEast. And now where have I ever seen them use just sand and crushed rock. Everyplace I've lived used some kind of salt to MELT the snow. Usually potasium or magnesium chloride. Area's in upstate NY use Calcium chloride because of the amount of snow they get and the very very cold winters. I lived for 3 months in Messena NY where temps have been known to reach -40. It did a few times I was there.....And Calcium was used a LOT...
by: the same mountainbike 02/14/2008 12:50:18 PM
Re: Garage vs Outside
My vote is for a carport, with a plug in engine heater.

When I lived in North Dakota, which also has extreme temperatures, I learned that in climates of extreme prolonged cold the mechanicals of the car wear out before the metal rusts. Rust doesn't grow when temperatures are below zero, but all the mechanical parts suffer. They change size and shape, and lubricants including the tranny and differential (we all had RWD cars back then) turn to the viscosity of wet concrete mix.

I also learned what it's like to sit on a frozen solid block of what was designed to be seat foam every morning at temperatures well below zero. So I guess I really couldn't argue with the relative comfort of a heated garage.
by: profhandy 02/14/2008 1:12:18 PM
Re: Re: Garage vs Outside
Install an in-the-block engine heater either in the garage or outdoors. Set the heater on a grounded prong outdoor-rated timer. Set the timer to turn on about 3 hours before you plan to leave. Pull the female extension cord and male heater plugs apart. Start, let warm up OUTDOORS for a minute or two. These in-the-block heaters replace one of your engine block freeze plugs. Directions come with the block heater. They use from 100-250 watts. You can set the off time for any time that you want. If you're unplugged, the only thing drawing juice is the timer motor. When you get home at night, plug the block heater back in to the extension cord. Just ensure that everything is rated for outdoor use. MUCH less expensive than using any kind of fossil fuel to heat the garage. Your electric bill will go up, maybe $10/month or thereabouts, but what's your vehicle worth? In the middle of the Rockies, in the middle of Colorado, at 8,868 ft. above sea level, I have block heaters in my old beater '71 Chevy van, S.O.'s '89 Toyota All-Trac, '92 Olds Cutlass Ciera, and in my '56 Allis-Chalmers WD-45 farm tractor. Whatever we're driving the next day gets plugged in the night before. One side benefit: quicker heat in the cabin without setting there 5 minutes waiting for everything to warm up. Ask your parts store for appropriate model of block heater. Instructions are straight forward, the biggest hassle being draining the engine block to get the appropriate freeze plug out. If you're parked in the garage, when you first start up, just pull the vehicle out of the garage while it idles for a minute or two. That'll give other engine/transmission fluids a chance to start circulating properly and keep you from being asphyxiated.
by: Docnick 02/14/2008 1:51:52 PM
Re: Re: Re: Garage vs Outside
From the OP post, we have to assume ehelme live in an apartment with a heated underground garage, and the garage is already heated. In order to avoid the frozen condensate problem, I recommended in my last post that the car should be plugged in even in a heated garage to give the engine a head start in warming up. To save power, I would use a timer of course as you point out. Your recommendations are very good, however, and I practiced most of them by being raised on a farm.

Most Fairbanks garages must know how to install a block heater in a Toyota.

I have used vehicles in the Arctic in temperatures as low as -55F, and with synthetic oil (oW30) and with battery, engine, and oil pan heaters we managed OK.
by: the same mountainbike 02/15/2008 5:42:40 PM
Re: Re: Re: Garage vs Outside
In North Dakota apartments had assigned spaces with outdoor sockets on posts controlled by switches inside the apartments. This was the normal, expected setup. It prevents someone else from using your electricity. I don't know if Alaska is the same way. It probably is.
by: americar 02/15/2008 7:30:14 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Garage vs Outside
Technically The relative humidity in the heated garage should be less then the outside RH, unless there is a humidifier or other big source of something putting out moisture in the garage.
Updated: 02/15/2008 09:04:09 PM
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by: Docnick 02/15/2008 8:31:37 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Garage vs Outside
One of the problems in an underground garage is all the snow and ice that falls out of the fenders and melts. Unless the garage is well ventilated, this tends to increase the humidity. Still, I would rather park in a moist warm garage at -20F than outside.
by: yacacn 02/18/2008 7:11:54 PM
Re: Garage vs Outside
I have been struggling with this question for years...whether to leave my car outside during the winter, or to park it in my unheated garage. I live in upstate NY, in an area that gets 200 inches of snow per year. Our average high temp in the winter is around 30 degrees, low around 15. Our cars see lots of road salt. When I park in the garage after driving on wet, salted roads, I know that the salt continues to be active in the corrosion process inside the garage. Outside, its below freezing and the process slows and stops. However, there is less damage to the powertrain since the garage stays around 35-40 degrees and this results in warmer starts. This also means no scraping or brushing off snow. I am not really worried about the body itself; I am more worried about the fuel lines, brake lines, power steering lines corroding prematurely.

Some thoughts:

1. If there are long stretches between snowfalls in your area, and the salt dries on your car, as long as it doesn't get wet, there will be very limited corrosive effects. It takes a decent amount of moisture to activate the corrosive features of road salt.

2. When you get your car washed in the winter, be sure to get the underbody spray. Getting the salt off the fuel and brake lines is more important as they are less protected than the body panels.

3. If you have some sort of guard over your fuel and brake lines, consider removing it. On my Corolla, there is a plastic guard that covers the fuel and brake lines as they run inside of a frame rail. That guard, despite its drain holes, traps salt and moisture and advances fuel line corrosion. I removed mine and cleaned all of the fuel lines. There were some spots that were pitting with corrision already! (The car is a 2002).

4. Consider getting underneath your car and coating the fuel and brake lines with heavy grease when they are clean. This will delay the corrosion process and prolong the life of these lines which are a pain and expensive to replace. You will need to recoat the lines with grease about once a month, best after a wash with an underspray.
by: Docnick 02/18/2008 10:47:49 PM
Re: Re: Garage vs Outside
Good points yacacn! When I lived in the Great Lakes Rust Belt, I parked in a cold garage, and used the block heater for 2 hours on cold days to warm up the engine. In those days you got your car Ziebarted, covered the underside with a sticky tar & wax mixture. It was sprayed inside your doors as well. It did a great deal to slow down the rust.

There were also oilers, guys who sprayed used crankcase oil to the underside of your car. It worked well, but had to be redone every year. Although illegal now for environmental reasons, I understand there are areas in the US where it is still done.

Although rust protection is much better now, cars in the dry araeas of the West still last twice as long as those in the humid East.

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