Actually, it started out as nothing more than stating the obvious but we are both guilty of trading barbs. And thanks for the sardonic compliment. Whitey, it stops here.

I ride a motorcycle.
Look, so you sold your car and now you think you are a hero. Big deal! You did not become a hero until you sold the car, so at one time you were no better than us car driving, non caring sloths.
You are still supporting the death inducing auto/truck industry every time you drop your token into the fare box, since........brace yourself, city buses have materials in them that out gas.
I am sincerly glad you own a motorcycle, they are a blast. But once again you are speaking without fact gathering and using good judgement and/or common sense. DON'T YOU REALIZE THE BIKE SEAT HAS MATERIALS IN IT THAT OUT GAS? AND YOUR SITTING ON IT! IT'S THAT CLOSE!
Whitey, please stop your needless and incessant diatribe. Please stop forcing your nonsensical opinions upon everyone here. I am sure you a pleasant person to know but please only speak of things you know about.

I have to agree with meaneyedcatz. Outgassing of plastic products in cars is really universal, and European cars are most definitely NOT exempt from this phenomenon. In fact, I have known of very similar situations with cars made in Germany.

I don't doubt that the car is making the woman in question ill. However, that--in and of itself--doesn't mean that the car is defective or that GM is responsible for curing the situation. This is a situation of a customer whose somewhat unique medical condition makes these fumes a problem for her.

Many hundreds of thousands of other people do not have a problem with this type of condition in their cars, so this is really not something that could reasonably be considered to be a defect in the vehicle. In a similar vein--if a customer with a spinal problem finds that the seats in his new car give him severe back pain, is the car company responsible for giving that person different seats?

Clearly, the only solution for this person is to buy a used car that is several years old. And, it is not the responsibility of either GM or the dealership to help her with the financial details. If the dealership wants to help her out with the vehicle trade-in and purchase of another car, that would be very nice, but it is not required of them. The reality is that the dealership is in business to make money, and most businesses do not function as a social agency does.

Many hundreds of thousands of other people do not have a problem with this type of condition in their cars 

How do you know that? How do you know long term exposure won't give you cancer in 15 years? Some people buy a new car every couple years. If it does give someone cancer, what level is acceptable? 1 in 100? 1 out of 500? What if the one in one hundred is your child? Will you still think that it is acceptable behavior from the car companies? What about diseases like Fibromyalgia, for which we don't know the cause? We might some day discover that exposure to toxins is the cause. How will you feel about having defended the car companies if that happens?

Try as you might, you are not going to convince me toxic exposure is something we should sit by and accept because we only see it directly affecting a few people. Those people have rights too! A country as great as ours is supposed to protect the weak.

Boy, I never expected this much heated debate. I agree with Whitey, but I also realize that change doesn't come overnight. The article I mentioned earlier in this blog was a discussion between Car Talk and Jeff Gearhart at the Ecology Center's Auto Project. They have started testing cars and rating them by the levels of toxic gasses emmitted by cars. There are more cases of people with this problem than you may realize. And, as their discussion says, we really don't know what long term effects the fumes will have on any of us. We may become sick and not even realize the source of the problem. My friend may well be the canary in the cage.

I realize that the auto maker is under no legal obligation to remedy the situation for her. But I've been in customer service for many years and anyone with experience knows that how you treat a customer with a problem can make or break your business reputation. If the dealer values his customers and the reputation he has in his community that brings them into his business, it would be smart to work with her and see what they can come up with in trade that won't cost her an arm and a leg or him. That would be a win-win situation.

I too have worked in customer service for a long time. Perhaps that gives us a unique perspective. I didn't think that anyone would need special qualifications to know poisoning your customers is bad business.

I didn't think that anyone would need special qualifications to know poisoning your customers is bad business.

Depends on your perspective. Tobacco companies exist for precisely this reason. There's no reason to care if you have a captive audience. And trust me, Americans are just as addicted to their cars as smokers are to cigarettes.

I don't think that's okay. It's just not going to be easy to change without real demand from consumers or force from the government.

Depends on your perspective. 

True enough. It does depend on perspective, but I think it also depends on whether or not the person has a functioning moral compass.

There's no reason to care if you have a captive audience. 

That is where I disagree. There is always a reason to take the moral high ground. Even if you don't believe in God or Heaven, many do the right thing simply because it is the right thing to do. I guess we can aggree there are also people who need additional motivation, but not everyone is that self-centered.

Read what I wrote again.

I specifically said I think it's wrong that some companies don't care unless there's an incentive. I just said that's the way it is. There are some good companies out there who try to protect people and the environment, but if you can't make it profitable, it's tough to stay in business.

I just read it again. I understood your points already and I disagreed with one of them. That's allowed, isn't it? I agreed with everything else you wrote.

The first thing to realize is that this isn't a manufacturing defect covered by the warranty. Your friend will be allergic to everything GM makes, from Chevy pickups to Cadillacs. Legally, neither GM nor the dealer has any obligation because there is nothing wrong with the car. Therefore, the best a lawyer might be able to do is persuade the dealer to swap because it would be good public relations.

The most sensible advice I have seen so far is for you and her to trade vehicles for a few months until hers stops out gassing. Parking the car in the sun, with the windows rolled up, so that it gets as hot as possible inside, will speed up the process.

Dogs seem to be more intelligent than humans on avoiding the toxic fumes given off by the sealants used in automobiles. The dogs stick their heads out the windows as they ride along.

The dogs stick their heads out the windows as they ride along.

Dogs do that even in very old cars and in the backs of pickups. They want to get every trace of odors into their very sensitive noses. They aren't trying to avoid something inside the car.

Wow. Did you really not know that was an attempt at levity? It was meant to be a joke.

There was a cartoon in "The Far Side" titled "Dogs Going to Work". Cars and buses were flowing along the highway carrying dogs and all the dogs had their heads out the windows. That was my motivation for the previous post.

I have a problem with my dog outgassing as we ride along in my old car. Thus I have my head out the window as we ride along.

The story about "only U.S. made" cars outgas is a total crock. SAAB (a European car) even came out with a service bulletin some years ago about this problem on their vehicles.
Their recommendation was to clean the plastic parts with soap/water, mix a 50/50 solution of water and vinegar, and wipe the plastic parts down with it.

While it's sad that your friend has problems what I would like to know is this.
Is it KNOWN for a 100% dead-on fact that outgassing of plastic parts is the cause of this problem?
If the vehicle is as toxic as claimed to be then why did your friend not notice this when looking at and test driving the car?

If your "friend" is expecting anything out of GM or the dealer based on this claim then your friend better be prepared to provide documentation from medical professionals that plastic outgassing is the actual cause of this problem and also have some deep pockets to pay the lawyers with.

Maybe the problem is that your friend simply has "buyers remorse"; a very common malady that a number of new vehicle purchasers seem to develop.

Who said only US made cars outgass? I have read in this thread (and in certain news articles) that European countries are in the process of banning materials that outgass toxins, but it hasn't been done yet. Even if/when it is done, compliance will take time. We haven't even talked about Japanese and North Korean cars, which I am sure outgass just as much. We just happen to be talking about a particular situation with a particular GM car, but that doesn't mean this topic only applies to GM or American car companies.

I personally know two women who are sensitive to this problem. One I used to date and I used to work with the other one. Perhaps there is another reason they felt ill, but after being checked out by doctors, the doctors said they think it was outgassing. The woman I worked with was able to return her car to the Toyota dealer for a full refund. She had to provide documentation from her physician to get the dealer to comply. She then got herself a 10 year old Buick and was much happier...and healthier. It could be coincidence I suppose, but I doubt it.

"We haven't even talked about Japanese and North Korean cars, which I am sure outgass just as much."

I don't think that there are any North Korean cars marketed in the US, or any other North Korean products, for that matter. Then again, there might be a good market for "Kim Jong Il elevator shoes" for short people in the US. He certainly does look fetching in those cha-cha heels that he wears.

;-))


Is it possible that you meant to say South Korea, or are they actually selling North Korean cars in the region where you live?

Who said only U.S. made cars outgas? Back at the bottom of page one of this thread the OP is the one who stated they read an article/internet/whatever that stated this.