Hydrogen is an energy storage medium, not a source fuel. You have to spend energy to make hydrogen (whether stripping hydrocarbons or electrolyzing water), and you get only part of that energy investment back from the fuel cell.

Refineries do not run on hydrogen fuel cells. They may produce hydrogen for use in cracking heavier oils into lighter ones (such as gasoline), where you need to add hydrogen when you break up long hydrocarbon chains and rings, but they don't generate electricity from it (except possibly for backup purposes).

My colleague and I are members of G.M.'s Project Driveway program, in which members may have the opportunity to test drive the Equinox Fuel Cell vehicle. This car is based on Chevy's Equinox chassis, but fitted with a hydrogen fuel cell stack. It is a zero-emissions vehicle, with water vapor as its exhaust. My colleague, Maria, was selected as one of the first test drivers, and I'm hoping to be among the next group selected. One of the biggest obstacles, I think, with hydrogen is the infrastructure--we're simply not ready yet to fuel millions of vehicles. Also--how is the hydrogen being produced? If it incorporates fossil fuels, then what's the point? But I'm excited about this program, the G.M. people are fantastic, and as environmental science teachers, we're having a blast teaching others about this program. One thing we've both noticed--many more men than women stop us to ask about the car.

This my colleague Maria with a White Plains, NY councilman and the G.M. Equinox Hydrogen Fuel Cell at a recent science expo at Pace University.

Hey Waggoneer:
Why don't you put this car in service with Joe Six-Packs family for a year?
Also if you really want to test Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology effectively put them in your Impala or the Australian Caprice that you eventually plan to bring to the US or some other NYC Taxi Cab and Limousine approved chassis and unleash it on the streets of New York City. Remember Motorcraft's (Ford Motor Company) "Taxi Tested Tough" parts campaign?
I'd like to apply for the "Joe Six-Pack" testing position should it come open.

I think the car of the future will run on H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide). H2O2 is an extremely high enegy fuel. A Hydrogen Peroxide/Aluminum fuel cell has 20 times the energy potential of a lead acid battery and only produces water. A 50 pound fuel cell would be enough to power a vehicle.

In my opinion the future will be a fuel centered economy. Hydrogen peroxide can be made from sunlight and is also a byproduct of ordinary fuel cells. I can imagine small scale production of H2O2 from co-genarators in homes as well as large scale production in desert areas where sunshine is plentiful but farming is not vialble.

I think today's HOV lanes will evolve into high speed car-trains. You will drive your can onto a monorail type of apparatus where a computer will combine cars going to the same destination and will join them front to back to travel at very high speeds between cities.

~OK

Take a look at the AirTrain at New York City's JFK Airport. I've ridden the future. The system was developed by Can-Am company Bombardier and constructed in record time, despite the fact that it needed large amount of concrete a material in NYC that is controlled by organized crime and well known to have "delivery" problems. Instead of building a HOV lane down the VanWyck (he was the first mayor of New York under unificaion in 1898) Expressway they took the money and built the Air Train down the center of the perenially crowded roadway. Now you can get from the LIRR Jamaica main station to any of the airport's terminals. The trains are all computer operated, just like San Francisco's BART System, and wisk you to your destination in a few minutes. NO TRAFFIC JAMS!!!
We need AirTrains over all our Interstate Super Highways , the VanWyck Expressway is designated an I-678, in New York City in the coming decade they should extend the AirTrain into midtown Manhattan and LaGuardia Airport, as was originally envisioned by former Governor Mario Cuomo who initated the AirTrain project, and then on top of the Long Island Expressway'x(LIE or Distressway or World's Longest Parking Lot)
HOV lane to MacArthur Airport in Ronkonoma and then onto Riverhead where is should split to the South Folk (Hamptons/Montauk) and the North Folk (Southold/Pt. Orient). This would enable to elitest from Manhattan (see Sex In The City, or other pop-culture crap TV programs) to get to Easthampton in about thirty minutes withou having the take the filthy diesel busses of the Hampton Jitney or the Hampton Luxury Liners. There would also be a bar car on the AirTrain so folks could get sloshed on their way home or to vacation (two drink maximums). This could also be done in Boston and Washington DC with links to their respective resorts (Cape Code or Maryland Shore or Myrtle Beach). Such an AirTrain system could wisk people from NY to LA in about a day at very little cost! The power to the system can be generated by non-zero state reactors or other electric generators. This can be done it doesn't take Rocket Science or Rocket Scientist.

In the future (later part of this millenium) there will be no need for automobiles. We will simply go to beaming stations where we will be beamed up just as on Star Trek to a destination. However, this will only occur when the anti-mattered discovered and proven to exist by Dr. Casimir (see Casimir Effect or get two pie plates and try it for yourself)in 1949 the year of my birth is finally harnessed to provide zero point energy. Darn those grays, they just won't give us those technologies right now!
Until we're ready to go where no person has ever gone before...there will be things known as automobiles. These vehicles will be driven by magnetic electric motors on each wheel, see the Loerner-Porsche of 1901 (Dr. Porsche knew what he was doing). The motors won't smell like subway trains do today when their windings get old because they'll have motors similar to those in your Dyson Vacuum cleaner. So actaully you'll be driving a vacuum cleaner and not an automobile. They'll also have to install a speaker to make automobile noises so that people won't will recognize that a vehicle is approaching and stay out of its way. The vehicles power source will either be a hydrogen power cell with salt water precipitator which will take H20 and create hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen will be stored in tanks so that you can recessitate someone should the occassion occur or if the car is submergeed by having been driven by a Kennedy then everyone in the vehicle will be able to escape or survive until someone comes to rescue you. There will be special batteries constructed to hold the additonal energy captured by the vehicles solar pannel and by the wind generator that will be mounted in the front grill of the car to capture additional electrons. Needless to say the cars will be clean, cheap, have personal entertainment systems, air conditioning, cell phones, and they will completely computer controlled. You won't be allowed to drive your car. Instead you'll issue a command as to where you want to go...take me home, etc...and be taken there. So now more DUI. You can be stoned out of your mind...your car will be your designated driver. Finally, most electricity to automobiles as well as all other electronic devices will have electric "broadcasted" to them over the airwaves just like Nikola Tesla, the inventor of Alternating Current (AC) said it could just prior to his strange suicide/death in a gotham flop house room prior to the start of WWII. Some speculate he was being sollicited by der Fuhrer to return to Europa and work on his scheme as well as something else called an Atom Bomb. Strange that the FBI immediately entered the case and seized all of Tesla's work papers, most of which have never been found. A team of folks form MIT accomplished Tesla's broadcast scheme last year when the broadcasted electricity to their home entertainment system. Also in about a year gasoline prices will be back down to $.99 a gallon when the elections are over...and the bandits in bed sheets no longer believe they can use petroleum as a weapon (or veapon as they like to say).

In the future (later part of this millenium) there will be no need for automobiles. We will simply go to beaming stations where we will be beamed up just as on Star Trek to a destination. 

You should watch the documentary that was done on "The Science of Star Trek". They covered the beaming. It was pretty funny.

First off the amount of memory to store the juxtaposition of every single atom on a human would take a stack of disks on top of each other reaching halfway into the milky way....We're talking a few THOUSAND LIGHT YEARS.

Second...If using the Fastest computers currently available it would take it LONGER then the age of the Universe to beam just ONE person....About 14 billion years. So computers better get a LOT FASTER....Say a few hundred trillion times faster then they currently are. Fastest computers these days are running about 10-20 trips (Trillion Instructions Per Second).

Third...(This one I really liked). Given Einstein's formula E=MC^2...(The amount of energy in an object equals the Mass of the object times the Speed of Light Squared)....When you convert the object (lets say a normal size human), the amount of energy the person would be converted to would be that of a million million hydrogen bombs going off all at once. Great line from the show. "If you COULD do it, it may not be very Environmentally Friendly." ...Beam one person and destroy the earth.

For a while I saw that BMW was proposing to generate steam from the exhaust manifold and trun it through a turbine. It seemed like a dead end idea to me but it reminded me of a chemistry demo in high school. If you put steam through a tube filled with steel wool the steam splits into hydrogen and oxygen. The steel wool is the catalyst but there are toher catalysts available too nickel and platinum come to mind. You then cycle the Hydrogen and Oxygen trhough the intake manifold. It could be a otential way to harness wated energy from IC engines.
Are there any physicists of engineers on this forum who can comment on some of these ideas?

~OK

Well, using what's otherwise wasted heat (dumped by the radiator or the exhaust manifold) to produce supplemental fuel is something that should be looked into. I don't know if there's enough heat available there (to run either a steam turbine or split water) to offset the weight and cost of the additional hardware -- I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath. And lots of people are going to forget to fill up with water and end up overheating the manifold if it's to rely on water cooling! Currently, radiator heat is too low grade (cool) to be terribly useful -- remember that heat engines need high temperatures for highest efficiency.

That's not exactly what happens. The iron in the steel wool takes away the oxygen from the water molecules to form iron oxide leaving behind hydrogen. Basically, you are converting steel wool into hydrogen. The energy in the hydrogen can be accounted for by the energy it took to reduce iron ore into iron.
Another well known reduction-oxidation reaction is when a mixture of powdered aluminum and powdered iron rust is ignited. The aluminum takes away the iron rust's oxygen to form aluminum oxide and leaves behind pure iron in a molten state. All the energy released was the energy that originally was used to convert aluminum ore into metallic aluminum. This mixture is known as thermite and here is a link to a thermite video.
http://www...rCWLpRc1yM

I didn't take time to scan all the replies, so I don't know whether anyone has mentioned air cars. These lightweight plastic cars would be perfect for developing countries, since they could be produced very cheaply. Millions of people could afford their first car without adding to the global demand for petroleum. Since the only emission from the high pressure air tanks is cold air, it would be perfect for tropical countries where a heat source is not needed. An onboard compressor would fill the tanks in a few hours, or a filling station with large tanks could fill the car's air tank in minutes for only a few pennies. It wouldn't solve every problem, but the air car could be one part of the solution. Tata Motors of India is set to begin production of the air car within a relatively short time. We shall see...

These lightweight plastic cars would be perfect for developing countries, since they could be produced very cheaply. Millions of people could afford their first car without adding to the global demand for petroleum.

Um, guess where almost all plastic comes from?

The practical care in the future would likely be an electricly powered car whose battaries would be recharged by a variety of means.

1. plug it in for an overnight charge.

2. A generator powered by some combustion source to keep the batteries charged after first few miles of driving. This could be gasoline, LP, bio desiel, high percentage ethanol perhaps even the much sought after power cell. (wich is not a combustion source but might eventualy be able to supply enough power).

3. a solar panel on the roof that will act as a trickle charger to keep batteries charged while it is parked in the sun. (just be sure to park on the top level of the parking garage.) An optional trickle charger might be a deployable turbine style windmill that could be used in windy areas/days.

The option of what generator is in the car would be varied and might vary by model or option much as we have the option for color or sport wheels. Perhaps one tpe or another will become the more desireable (probably based on price) It could also very by region as to what fuel source is the cheaper.

What we know as gas stations will become know more as fuel stops and supply a variety of fuel not gas and desiel but LP, bio desiel, ethanol, hydrogen. Perhaps some rapid recharge method will be developed and offered at fuel stops as well. Perhaps a reserve battery or set of batteries that will be owned by the fuel supplier and swapped out when depleted or the deposit returned if the driver decides not to use the fuel supplier's reserve batteries.

As the cost and demand for gasoline increases globaly, those who are able to afford "hybrid" vehicles will begin to purchase them. This will cause a demand for them that will be met by car manufactuers that will use thier creativity to develop better and better designs. It may take a few years for the demand to ramp up but the need for affordable transportation is not going to go away. The market will dicate the car of the future. The most affordable fuel source will win out. As I have indicated that may be different from one geographic area to another. It seems likely that a variety of fuels will be available nation, even world wide.

I drove three old diesel Benz's in a row for the last 16 years, planning on going veggie, but as a single mom of three (since the youngest was a newborn), never got around to it. Now I have an 'in-betweener' '91 Topaz (surprisingly reliable and comfortable to drive) until I figure out what I really want next. I like the solar idea, wonder if that could be added, making a veggie oil/ solar hybrid. Anyone???

Loved seeing the beloved 'bros' on PBS!!! We are very long time fans of the radio show, and I am lucky enough to live in a place that picks up two different hours in a row on two different stations. I credit you guys with being a fun male influence in our house on Saturday mornings: My eldest is working on her doctorate in atmospheric chemistry, with a plan to work on alternative fuels next... she loved the PBS show as well, as did my fascinating biz-lawyer-to-be son. Youngest took off to Scotland for her forensic studies, and she's the one who got the rest of us into F1!

Most of the above, including nothing at all. China should stick with bikes, Hawaii should combine bikes and Iceland's system. Hydrogen is a simple system, electric (batteries) too. Natural gas is good, hybrid technology only increases efficiency, you need some form of fuel. Cities will have some supply of biodiesel from cooking grease from fast food, but far from enough to power an entire city of cars. Converting coal to oil won't make gas cheaper, it is only economical when the price is high. Many people hear there is a 200 year supply, and think it will last forever. But it will run out faster if more use is found for it. I like using coal to power electric vehicles better, because then the problem becomes finding other sources of electricity. Compressed air will only power small vehicles short distances.

China should stick with bikes

Hmmm. You tell 500 million (or whatever) emerging middle class Chinese that we won't let them have cars. That may make perfect environmental sense, but I don't think it's gonna fly. They will rightly point out that we (Americans) enjoyed a century (plus) of unfettered personal transportation and middle class lifestyle, so who are we to tell them what to do?

Cities will have some supply of biodiesel from cooking grease from fast food

An interesting random thought: as we get healthier (??) and eat less fried food and fast food, what will happen to the supply of biodiesel? Or is there no danger of a fuel shortage there?

I would like the Chinese to read my suggestion and agree with it. That may not happen in the short run. But in the long run, what won't fly is China having a car for everyone, or even half their population. Never mind fuel, there will also be problems with space. The dream of car ownership will become the nightmare of traffic jams on 20 lane highways. Americans are the best example, if you look at the big cities.

No need to use the oil for cooking first, if fast food goes out of style. Biodiesel is mostly made directly from soybeans, using cooking oil is more something for cheap tinkerers to try. The supply is limited.

Why won't it fly for every Chinese person to have a car? The guy who lives down the street from me lives alone and has three cars. Are you going to curtail his freedom too?

It is kind of funny. We have men and women who serve in the armed forces dying overseas in order to spread democracy. Yet you would take away someone else's freedom in order to make fuel cheaper for yourself? Why do you hate freedom?

I'm sure all of the above according to need, location and availability of the required fuel. Biodiesel for heavy trucking/industry/agriculture, electric for smoggy urban areas, moonshine for the rest and natural/produced gas where abundant.