Turthfully, I am not surprised to hear that hybrids pose a danger to blind people. A woman who works in my office building has a Prius, and when she is parking her car or driving slowly through the parking lot, it is absolutely silent.

Since a couple of other employees (who were not paying attention) have had close calls with her car while they were walking in the parking lot, it is very believeable that a blind person would be unable to detect when a hybrid car is approaching at low speed.

I've had a similar experience to your coworkers'. I was walking along the road in a state park last summer and a Prius came up behind me. I didn't even hear it until it was practically on top of me, and I didn't realize it was a car until I turned around because it was only making a faint whining noise. I can definitely see why they'd be a danger to the blind community, although it'll be interesting to see what sort of noise is added.

I notice you didn't report having to 'jump out of the way'. I dare say, if you had been talking on a cell phone, listening to an iPod, or distracted by a small child, you would have been just as surprised by an engine vehicle. The problem is sound already has a deadly, bloody record of crushed bodies.

H.R. 734 and S. 841 will not make you or anyone else safer because the accident data shows there is no hybrid risk. What it will do is be a placebo, a sweet sounding nonsense just before a pedestrian is crushed to death.

We need effective pedestrian collision systems based upon radars or cameras that automatically engaged the brakes and prevent an accident. Engine noise already kills too many.

BTW, the new 2010 Prius has energy absorbing bumpers, quarter panels and a hood to minimize injury and prevent death in the event of a pedestrian-Prius collision. But H.R. 734 and S. 841 fail utterly to mandate these sensible changes for all cars. That is pedestrian safety.

Bob Wilson

Where are the bodies? Where is the accident data that shows this is a real hazard?

We know 4,700 pedestrians die each year with engine noise in their ears. There is nothing about a faux noise maker that makes them any safer.

Bob Wilson

Does this mean mandatory earth moving vehicle style beepers on hybrids when they are in EV mode?
How about the playing card in the spokes style noisemakers that we all put on our bicycles when we were kids?
Maybe we should make them sound like George Jetson's flying saucer car.

You took the words out of my mouth.

Very unsanitary.

But give the level of inattention of so many drivers out there, I think the visually-impaired have good cause to be nervous.

I'm sure there's tons of Mickey Mantel and Babe Ruth rookie cards out there for everyone of these cars. :P

Mickey Mantle you rookie !! Mantel was a talk show host or bald comedian.

Montel, not Mantel. :p

Fit them with a little model airplane engine without a muffler?

A new market for the down load of cell phone ring tones. I think they should all sound like ice cream trucks.

Well, I for one hope that no one takes this idea seriously. It's not that hybrids in electric mode, or pure electrics, don't make *any* sound. They most certainly do. It's just that people aren't used to the sounds they do make. Yes, they are quieter, but tires on the road and a certain amount of wind noise is inevitable. Once enough of these cars are on the streets people will come to associate the sounds they do make with automobiles. Right now, our brains tend to filter out the non-dangerous sounds and since these don't sound like a car with a running engine our brains just don't alert us. If we get to a point where electric vehicles are more common we'll start hearing them just fine.

The idea of noisemakers on quiet cars reminds me of the old turn of the (20th) century laws requiring a man with a red flag to walk ten paces ahead and another ten paces behind any automobile. They were dangerous and might spook the horses you know ;-)

Actually, I read a preliminary study that help prompted this law. It is not just out of whole cloth, or a segment of people barking loudly. The study I read was conducted by a safety group for the blind that held an informal study with a couple of groups of blind people. They were grouped into a parking lot, and different hybrid models were used. According to the observations, none of the participants heard any one the cars, even though all of the cars were driving constant circles around them. One was quoted as saying, "Has the test started yet?", and this was after the cars had completed about 2 laps.

The jokes and skepticism are understandable, but just think about it. In a typical urban and suburban setting, there is a large load of ambient noise to hide the very little noise a rolling car without the engine running would make. Kids on bikes analogy fall flat, because most kids are anything but quiet when playing. The bill basically funds a study over a legitimate safety issue. If the addition of a low-level buzzer, low enough not to be heard by the driver or passengers, but distinct enough to be noticed within 25 yards of a moving car would not hurt anybody or anybody's pocketbook.

Just remember, they added beeper's to commercial vehicles so you would have an audible warning when something big, and probably blind was about to back up nearby. This has resulted in a major drop in accidents involving these big trucks, pedestrians and workers.

That "study" was 'whole cloth.' For example, Prof. Rossenblum reports that above 25 mph, both hybrids and non-hybrid have equal levels of noise that comes from tire and wind noise. The NHTSA points out that less than 5% of all pedestrian fatalities occur at speeds under 25 mph. But Rossemblum doesn't address this in his report. I know because I saw his report at the June 23, 2008 NHTSA hearing in Washington DC.

The 'jokes and skepticism' has a basis in facts and data. There is no evidence of an unusual hybrid hazard to pedestrians. Although the blind may not like it, they are not the only ones on the street and H.R. 734 and S. 841 are fatally flawed legislation.

As for back-up beepers, a better answer is a rear view camera so the driver can see what is behind them. That is a real safety feature. Interesting, one of the blind at that hearing complained that these backup beeps are so loud that with the echos, they can't tell where the vehicle is located.

We need effective safety systems and H.R. 734 and S. 841 mandate the same thing that kills too many pedstrians today.

Bob Wilson

Actually, people who are blind, use the sound of moving cars to keep track of where they are and to keep a straight line when crossing the street. If they can't hear the car when it moves from a start position at a corner it may be more difficult to cross safely. Also, they won't be able to hear it when it stops for a light or stop sign and then turns into the street they are crossing-dangerous. They also will not be able to use the sound of traffic to determine WHEN it is safe to cross the street.

Gosh, assuming the driver is looking out the front window, it seems there shouldn't be much problem. So, I wonder if there is a real danger, or if people get frightened when it appears without warning. I mean, do we assume a driver is going to run down anyone in front of them?

No, we can't assume that a driver of a hybrid is going to run down someone in front of him/her, but the fact remains that pedestrians are hit by cars daily and many of these incidents are the result of driver inattention. Just as a driver needs to drive defensively, a pedestrian needs to walk defensively when crossing a street.

But, when a vehicle is silent (or at least unusually quiet), it is that much harder for a pedestrian to guard against being hit by a car driven by an inattentive driver. And, if the pedestrian is blind, major problems could result.

I agree 100%. The issue isn't that hybrids are too quiet. In fact, that should be desired in all cars. The issue is that the people operating them are not paying proper attention.

If this law passes, it will only lend credence to the stupid "loud pipes save lives" myth.

I am not so sure I would call "loud pipes save lives" a stupid myth. It is true that there is no scientific evidence to prove that soud pipes save lives, but there no scientific evidence that proves that loud pipes don't save lives either.

This is the kind of debate that has been long over due...cars too quite. Hopefully the next will be; they don't use enough energy to "fuel" the economy; and the local underground gasoline storage tanks need "Stabil" added to it because the turn over is too infrequent. Ya gotta love it !!!