<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Detroit does it again: Lots of SUVs, few high MPG compacts"]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/12202.page Public Action Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
Don't get me started on design quality; a person who shaves a few dollars off a part, regardless of the consequences (gaskets, etc.),in a US owned plant, is still a hero. Toyota does this all the time, but the quality either goes up or stays the same!]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1108424 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1108424 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
In 1972 I was looking for an economy car. I tested the Datsun 510, Pinto and Vega. I thought at the time that if this was all the U.S. could come up with after a decade or two of VW taking sales.... The Datsun was W A Y ahead in refinement.

The management and unions are equally at fault I suppose. That said, It's amazing that some desirable cars are produced: Corvette, Caddy CTS, the new Malibu(according to tests I hear),Buick Enclave. Still work to be done on economy cars, though. Not much changed since 1972!]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1107056 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1107056 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1104644 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1104644 GMT Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1102812 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1102812 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! So is it a guess? Sure... and guesses can be wrong (that's why Consumer Reports has removed their automatic recommendation for Toyota). But it is no more of a guess than it is with any Honda or Toyota model.... 

What I use is PAST history...GM's history in build a reliable vehicle for the past 30 years is MISERABLE. Where as Honda, Toyota and Nissan haven't been. They've proven to be far more reliable then GM. There's guesses and then there's EDUCATED GUESSES.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1108434 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1108434 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
So is it a guess? Sure... and guesses can be wrong (that's why Consumer Reports has removed their automatic recommendation for Toyota). But it is no more of a guess than it is with any Honda or Toyota model....]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100828 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100828 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
Try the new Malibu LTZ (?) or the top of the line Ford Fusion. 


How can you possibly if a 1yo car is reliable????
]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100820 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100820 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1105220 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1105220 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
Can you actually tell any off them apart from more than 10 feet away?]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1102219 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1102219 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1102212 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1102212 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100823 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100823 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
Having the option of a manual is a big deal to me, and also tells me what kind of person the manuacturer believes is buying the car. If I want a stick in a Honda with a V6, or a BMW with a V8, they give me that choice. If ford wants to woo people who are driving enthusiasts or at least give the image that someone who enjoys driving might consider their car they need to make certain options available.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100654 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100654 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
Unless you're referring to MY statements, of course :)]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100616 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100616 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
I won't even address the other completely ignorant statements in this entire thread (not a personal attack, Dave G... just pointing out how out of touch the consumer is with the offerings)]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100434 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1100434 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098853 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098853 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098635 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098635 GMT Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098616 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098616 GMT Re: Detroit does it again!
100 per gallon with gas and electrical

http://www.calcars.org/

All of the US based Automakers have been make $$$ and not having any concerns about gas mileage or the health of the planet

Now that gas is heading to 4, or 5 or 6 dollars a gallon Opps

GM Makes Hummers and Crush the eletical car

Now the whish that this could be reversed

]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098415 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098415 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098614 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1098614 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again! It takes time to change production to smaller cars. First they have to recognize tht sales are down on the SUVs (they have). 

Problem I see with Detroit is they move very very slow to react to current trend....with the exception of Chryco. They were the leaders in the 80's and 90's with the first MiniVan...First Mid-size FWD vehicle...Too bad their quality was cr*p. GM likes to keep a certain model until way past it's prime. They are very very slow to change designs. Toyota, Nissan and Honda change MUCH MUCH faster....and seem to hit the mark a lot more times. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097434 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097434 GMT Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097414 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097414 GMT Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1095819 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1095819 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
I don't buy new, so resale value is rarely an issue for me, either.

I always laugh when I think of friends/family who've paid more for their one used import vehicle, than I've paid for 2 domestic vehicles that are much more interesting to drive and look at. And their ownership costs are always higher than mine. I really don't see the attraction.

My opinion of course, to each their own.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097431 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097431 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1094227 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1094227 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1094221 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1094221 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
Chevy: http://www.chevrolet.com/lineup/
Toyota: http://www.toyota.com/


]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1094026 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1094026 GMT Re: Detroit does it again! If one is offended by heavyweight Detroit made pickups and SUVs then are you equally offended by Toyota 4Runners and Tacomas, Nissan Titans and Armadas, etc.?


A number of my neighbors own late model Chevrolet Impalas and every single one of these people are happy with their vehicles. They state the fuel mileage they get is in the 29-32 MPG range on the highway. (And before it's brought up, I know these people very well and they are not liars.)
If one is offended by the mileage these cars get then are you equally offended by the mileage a new Camry gets or especially a new Subaru; none of which get near what the Impala does? (This in spite of Subaru proclaiming themselves the greenest car company).]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1092612 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1092612 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
1. Americans drive a lot more

2. Europe has ridgid ammual inspections

3. Americans are less punctual about checking things and maintenance

4. Climate variations in the US are extreme compared to Europe

Americans virtually live in cars; and a good number of them were conceived in cars!

The Japanese leanred the hard way, and withdrew their initial offerings until the bugs had been worked out. Nissan even had one of their engineers live with a US familiy for a full year to learn about the abuse US cars get.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1105814 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1105814 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097425 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097425 GMT Re: Detroit does it again!
Really tough for me to accept European versions being touted as reliable. The milage requirements is so much less than that of US, only Fiat, Renault etc. could survive there. Please tell me a compact car made in Europe that is as reliable as even an American Ford Focus let alone a Toy/Honda/Sub etc. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1092021 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1092021 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
I do remember when I was in college that my dad was shopping for a replacement for his 1954 Buick. After driving the 1960 Buick, he said that he wasn't going to pay $3200 for a four passenger car and went down the street and bought a Rambler Classic. The fit and finish of the Rambler seemed better than that of the Buick at that time. I purchased a 1965 Rambler Classic in 1965 and I thought the car seemed to be of higher quality than the Dodge Dart or the Ford Fairlane or Falcon. I did have to have the transmisison (manual) repaired and it was a pain to drop the rear axle with the closed driveshaft. When I was ready to replace the Rambler, AMC no longer built what I thought was a quality car.

IMHO, it is the perceived quality that sells a car. The Rambler lost this after the mid-1960's, and, as a result, lost its niche that George Mason and George Romney had established in the marketplace.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097645 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097645 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
Unfortunately the American car buying public didn't seem to care about the Rambler. Gas was still under 25ยข a gallon. In their FIRST YEAR'S PRODUCTION Chevy's Corvair and Ford's Falcon, which were their first foray into small car production, combined to sell more than Nash/AMC's Rambler's did during the previous ten year run.

For the most part, no one seemed to care that the Rambler existed. Don't get me wrong, I still have my two bigger 1950 Nashes, and had a '54 Rambler Country Club hardtop a few years ago. Sloppy handling, weak front suspension systems, enclosed drive shafts and all. Were they well made? I really don't think so. I wonder what percentage of '50 to '60 Nashes compared to '50 to '60 Fords still exist.


1960 First year Corvair 187696
1960 First year Ford Falcon 435676
Totals for that 1st year, 623372

1950 Nash Rambler 11428
1951 Nash Rambler 69953
1952 Nash Rambler 53000
1952 Nash Rambler 30260
1954 Nash Rambler 36230
1955 Nash Rambler 56023
1956 Nash Rambler 46107
1957 Rambler American 68757
1958 Rambler American 30640
1959 Rambler American 91494
1960 Rambler American 120983
Ten year total 614795

When they quit making the Corvair and Falcon, AMC was still pumping out small cars. They were not big sellers either. It seems to me to be rather like they wanted to be the only car company out there, and wanted the public to love their outdated cars, no matter what. And THEN came the Renault Alliance. The worst of two worlds. And now the US Air Farce wants the French to help build the new tanker, but I digress.

]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1094631 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1094631 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again! ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1092025 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1092025 GMT Re: Detroit does it again!
IMHO, Chrysler corporation had a great opportunity to get on the boat with its Neon. Had the car given the impression that it was a quality car and established a record for reliability, it could have been the next VW Beetle. When George Mason was president of Nash, he brought a a small car that was easy on gasoline called the Rambler. The car was well made and it did sell. I don't think that our manufacturers learn much from history.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1090422 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1090422 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
If you read back through all my messages, you will find comments to that end a number of times. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1091212 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1091212 GMT Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1090012 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1090012 GMT Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1089817 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1089817 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097420 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1097420 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! Rubbish. you said it I didn't lmao

maico.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1091838 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1091838 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1090021 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1090021 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1107814 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1107814 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
In my home town, the buses were all converted over to natural gas for environmental reasons, despite the head of the authority admitting they'd now have to burn more energy. As far as I'm concerned, they got it right.

Buy a small, gasoline-powerdd car and just drive it 20% less!]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1105253 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1105253 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1088213 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1088213 GMT Re: Detroit does it again!
maico]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1087820 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1087820 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again!
Gas mileage and drivability were not mentioned in Mr Mehan's OP. He said that the Model A was the last car to truly address the market. I believe that is a true statement. It replaced the very outdated Model T. It was a lot better competition for offereings from other car makers of the era.

And yes, there is a Model A in the building in my backyard. I've also owned Model
T's tho the last was produced when my parents were kids. Have you driven an old Ford lately? ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1093817 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1093817 GMT Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1087434 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1087434 GMT Re: Detroit does it again!
SUV's were a great thing as the profit margin is/was substantial vs a low priced non luxury small car.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1086844 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1086844 GMT Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1086834 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1086834 GMT Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1089414 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1089414 GMT Re: Re: Re: Detroit does it again! http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1087822 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1023810.page#1087822 GMT