http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/12202.page Public Action http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1121820 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1121820 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1120211 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1120211 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1119708 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1119708 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1119625 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1119625 GMT
We switch car brands fairly frequently so I don't want to spend the time and prefer not to waste money searching for an independent mechanic that may match the dealer peoples' training, equipment, service bulletins, more fellow mechanics to consult with, OE parts availability and one other thing: A dealer can use the resources of the vehicle mfr. if a problem is difficult. This was our recent experience with a new car warranty issue and later on it could have been an out of warrenty issue.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1114425 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1114425 GMT
It happened to my brother with his 1990 VW Passat that had a four month old replaced at VW dealer timing belt snapped 100 miles away. VW covered the repair & tow to a local to breakdown dealer. The repair was major as there was valve damage beyond the simple timing belt replacement. VW even gave him a loaner (not sure if typical) since the parts took a bit longer to acquire.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1113618 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1113618 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1111036 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1111036 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1116813 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1116813 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1116647 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1116647 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1116617 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1116617 GMT > training=DEALER (never ending)
> whenever training=independent (if hes in the mood)

It's difficult to learn anything or draw any conclusions from this.

I worked in both dealerships and independent garages. While it's true that dealers make more training available, not all mechanics are equally serious about learning the material. I've learned to place more value on a mechanic's skill level, how conscientious he or she is, their experience and integrity. In the long run, that far outweighs the amount of training videos they are told to sit in front of and watch.

I too was troubled by your slam against Joseph Meehan's reply on this subject. With the enormous amount of respect he's earned in this forum, replies like your earlier one only serve to make you look foolish.


]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1113014 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1113014 GMT whenever training=independant (if hes in the mood)

have a wonderful day!


]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1111015 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1111015 GMT
1. With a dealership, you don't have to save the receipts in the event you need warranty work. The dealership has all the maintenance records in their computer.

2. With a dealership, the mechanics don't work on as many different brands of cars, so they might be a little better at complex jobs. Last week on Car Talk, a woman called in because her mechanic forgot to reinstall clips on her axles during a clutch job. I believe this is less likely to happen at a dealership.

I have found a shop that I trust with complex jobs, so I don't necessarily follow my own advice, but, generally, I feel good about getting maintenance done with my mechanic. However, if I needed a new clutch or transmission, I would probably go to a dealership. Statistically, I believe the odds of complications would be lower.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1109412 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1109412 GMT
As for the dealers they always make sense when you're in warranty, if you need a recall taken care of, or if you have something exotic or difficult for an independent to deal with. BMW comes to mind as a make that can be very difficult to stay on top of for an independent, and I can can tell you as someone who used to work for BMW that it's very difficult just for the techs at the dealer to stay on top of them. Every other month you're on a plane doing training seminars on the latest device BMW has installed and how to properly troubleshoot it. An independent can do it, but it's not easy and you NEED to be friends with a local dealer when you get hung up. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108617 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108617 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1109413 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1109413 GMT You have good dealers then...The ones I've dealt with would NEVER offer anything but OEM parts. As for Factory authorized rebuilt parts...GM and Ford are the only ones I know that offer this. Never seen a Toyota or Honda offer them. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1109037 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1109037 GMT
Dealers do stock factory authorized rebuild parts I think it is more make dependent than anything. For example my close friend with her "infallible" 140k 2002 Accord had the normal auto tranny explosion. She used a dealer who installed a factory authorized rebuilt transmission with 3yr/36k warranty.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108828 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108828 GMT One thing besides labor price is the parts they use. There are times that OEM parts are NOT better...in fact they may be worse then aftermarket. With the dealer you don't get an option....OEM only. Things like sparkplugs are outrageously expensive at the dealer. Yet you can find the EXACT same plug made by the exact same manufacturer elsewhere a LOT cheaper...but it's NOT OEM.

The other thing I hate with dealers is things like Alternators, starters are always NEW. A good rebuilt is as good or better and a lot cheaper.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108615 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108615 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108417 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108417 GMT
This way you should be able to avoid any diagnostic fees, etc.

]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107815 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107815 GMT
I use dealer mostly when car is new and if they satisfy me I stick with them. Recently though my dealer service managers changed and now recommend unneeded by maintenance. Fortunately a really experienced in my car make indy shop opened who I really like.

One advantage of dealer though is the occasional unpublished warranty. For example my wife's 96 Honda Civic at 140k was stalling after driving high speeds and Check Engine light was on. We did not have a good shop so tried the local Honda dealer. Got a call of good news and it was going cost $1500 for new cat converter and two oxygen sensors! But they said Honda had an extended warranty and it was all covered and cost us $100 for an exhaust component that was rusty and not covered. I think an indy shop would have cost $750-$1000+ in this case. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107813 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107813 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107051 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107051 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107035 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107035 GMT you don't HAVE to go to a dealer. but you should find one who specializes in japanese imports.  

WHY??? There isn't anything special about any Japanese vehicle I ever worked on. A good mechanic who's had a wide variety of experience won't have any problem working on domestic or foreign. Some German vehicles or exotic vehicles may be the exception. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108612 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108612 GMT
ask friends neighbors co workers for recommendations for a different shops near you.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107411 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107411 GMT http://act...41210.page

]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107050 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107050 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107032 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107032 GMT Dealerships do not always insist on using thier parts. One qouted me a price on thier brand and I asked them to qoute aftermarket. They said they only use O.E. and so I asked them "you want to make a sale or not"? Aftermarket was installed.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107025 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107025 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107020 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107020 GMT
The dealer will be more up to date on service bulletins, will have on hand many specialty tools that the independent will not, and the techs will be more familiar with various little proprietary quirks that are common to any car.

If this is in regards to the tight valve business on your Honda then simply ask them to perform a compression check. If the comp. check verifies the low compression you were told about by another shop then the valve covers should be removed and the valve lash inspected. If the lash is tight as suspected then simply ask them up front to hold off on any further repair at your expense if it leads to this. Contact the regional office of Honda Motor Co. and get them involved in this since they will be the ones paying the bill for any good will warranty situation.

Keep it courteous/professional and hopefully they will cover this for you. If they say yea then there is nothing to worry about. They will authorize the dealer to carry out the entire repair at Honda's expense.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106813 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106813 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1116624 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1116624 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108816 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108816 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108423 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108423 GMT
Since this is a brand-new member, it could be the dreaded mmsamma, but then again, I tend to think not. If you notice, that post has no grammatical or spelling errors, the spacing is correct, and the words "please" and "thanks" were used. Mmsamma was never capable of any of these niceties.

Yes, he has neglected to capitalize where appropriate, but overall, this is like Shakespeare in comparison to mmsamma or maico!]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108011 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108011 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106814 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106814 GMT
thanks!]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106639 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106639 GMT
A dealer may well recommend work that strictly may not be needed, but could be connected to the problem or maybe replace a part when a little repair would fix it ALMOST as good a new.

There is no need to bring your car to the dealer for any service other than service that is going to be paid for by a recall or original warrantee. During the warranty period be sure to have all required (as listed in the owner's manual) maintenance done and to document all maintenance work.

I suggest that most people would be better off finding a good independent (Not working for a chain) mechanic.

Note: Never ever use a quick oil change place. They are fast cheap and very very bad.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106632 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106632 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107022 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1107022 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106633 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106633 GMT ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106627 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106627 GMT
To the O.P. Dealerships are required to have their techs current on training. Indies may or may not be. If they don't know how to fix a particular problem, they will have to learn. They should not charge you for this, but it might take longer for you to get your vehicle back. It is more likely a couple of hours, but it could be a couple of days.

As others have written, an indie can use a wider variety of sources for replacement parts costing less. They can also deviate from prescribed repair and Maintenance procedures more than a dealership, though in the latter if they can find a faster way to fix something they usually are allowed to do it.

In choosing a repair shop, rely on recommendations either way. Talk to everyone you can about their experiences. If someone recommends a particular shop, ask them what kind of work they had done there. Maintenance is pretty simple stuff. Sometimes diagnosis and repair are tricky. For a few years now, I have a guy that really enjoys novel and difficult problems. Once I called and described a sound my wife’s departed Honda was making and his response was something like, “Really, bring it in. I would really like to hear that!”

If you find an indie shop that you like, be good to them. Go there for oil changes and buy your tires there if their prices are reasonably close. They will return the favor by spotting incipient problems before they blow up into big ones. In addition, remember that no one is perfect. If a mistake is made, give them a chance to make it right. I lot of people very easily forget when money is going out of their pockets, that everyone has a right to make a fair living.
]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106638 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106638 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106621 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106621 GMT
All the recommendations by CR exactly parallel the ones on our various posts that have appeared on the subject; (1) Shop around, (2) Check your manual (3) Get a quote (4) Only go to the dealer if it's warranty or no one else can do it (5) Look for a specialist (6) Does the shop get tech updates? and (6) Be specific when you take your car in.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108414 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1108414 GMT
I'd suggest that an good independent is the way to go for most things, as the price difference on some things can be substantial.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106618 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106618 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106615 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106615 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106612 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/1043209.page#1106612 GMT