Latest posts for the thread "55 mph...it's time has come."

AHHH!!! Freedom...

jcfl1684 — GMT

In TX (and in other areas i'm sure), there are parts of I10 that have an 80mph speed zone. None of these speed limits require you to move that fast (though most DO require a 40 min; and i think THAT is a hazard). My wife is very safety and efficiency-consience; she refuses to go over 65, and sometimes drives slower than that. The best part about this country is that we have freedoms. If you want to conserve on gas, by all means, drive at the speed that fits you, but that doesn't mean a legislation should be passed to REQUIRE a slower speed limit. There comes a point where speed limits are "necessary" for "public safety" (but why do German autobahns have less accidents/fatalities?). But ultimately, this is a personal freedom and responsibility issue.

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genex — GMT

Now thats what I call a real non sequitor ! - Saner rules = 55 limit !

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sssdrf — GMT

We need saner rules for the road and the environment--55mph will help both.

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

sirbikesalot06 — GMT

I wonder who has driven on I-10 in West Texas outside of El Paso. The Speed limit is 80mph. Really it's 80mph. When I had my little Hyundi Accent, I did 80mph between the cities and wasn't all that concern with 65 or 55, I did slow down, but i did about 5 mph greater. In 70 mph zones on I-35 between Dallas and austin, I did 80 all the way.
if the Standard Speeds here in the West are 75 and 80 even in CA, then when you reduce that standard speed, you should also reduce the speed are cars can go.
Also Texas is a big State. At 55 mph, it takes two days to cross the state from LA to NM or vice Versa. Its your Choice to spend time in the state that so far as produce 3 Crazy Presidents.

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FoDaddy — GMT

Like I said, enforcing such a law would be very difficult. A good start would be making the drivers license testing a good bit more demanding that it is now.

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mconn — GMT

Maybe like a concealed weapons premit.....wait till the accident occurs, then check to see who had the right to drive too fast.

Or stickers you could place on your bumper titled "85 mph and over legal, don't even bother to try and pass".

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FoDaddy — GMT

"Depends on the definition of 'is'". In this case "Who's reason" is defined as prudent speeds for the conditions and/or/around the 85th percentile and not doing anything deemed illegal while behind the wheel. I would like to see a graduated licensing system, if you show competence behind the wheel you are permitted to drive faster, if you lack the ability to drive safely/competently then you would be more limited in how fast you are permitted to drive. I realize that this may sound somewhat contradictory to what I posted earlier, but it's really not, since nobody is keeping anyone from improving their driving and getting the higher endorsements. A licensing program like the above would probably help the overall driving population's skill behind the wheel because everyone would want the top tier endorsement. As for how such a thing would be enforced, I'm not sure.

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FoDaddy — GMT

double post, sorry

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FoDaddy — GMT

Of course there would be a minimum speed that everyone would have to obey, just like there is now. Americans just need to learn proper lane discipline that works quite well in other countries. If the folks that wished to travel at a lower speed would do the decent thing and stay in the right lane, instead of slothing along three abreast across the highway, it would help everyone. It works in Germany, and it could work here. Alot of the roads here would need some work done to support high speed driving, but the money for that could come from the proceeds made from people shelling out money for the endorsements.

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mconn — GMT

I guess wwe are talking apples and oranges......the input of the military was during the initial contruction of the early interstate systems....airstip not an "urban myth" then, but not a consideration now.

Hell lets make it infinitely efficient and let what was suggested earlier, everyone deside for themselves their own reasonable speed...cell phone addicts, drinkers, pot heads, and the worst, road rage maniacs. Wouldn't it be fun dodging them just for the fun of it...maybe we could force a few of those do-gooders off the highways and into backroads.

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FoDaddy — GMT

I was proposing making the interstate system more efficient. It's far cheaper to simply raise speed limits, thereby making more use of what we already have, than it is adding more lanes and more roads at a much greater expense to the taxpayer. And while the interstate was initially a national defense idea (the one in every five miles is an airstrip thing is an urban myth BTW), in real world use it's used roughly 99.9999% for civilian/commercial purposes.

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mconn — GMT

One other point about "socialist drivel" The Interstae high way was co designed by govt. to save lives and not provide a drag race between two points.....

From DOD

"During World War II, Gen. Eisenhower saw the advantages Germany enjoyed because of the autobahn network. He also noted the enhanced mobility of the Allies when they fought their way into Germany. President Eisenhower established the Highway Trust Fund to create a funding mechanism that enabled the United States to build a national road network similar to the German Autobahn.

From the outset of construction of the Interstate System, the DOD has monitored its progress closely, ensuring direct military input to all phases of construction. The National Defense Highway System was responsible for building many of the first freeways. Its purpose was supposedly to allow for mass evacuation of cities in the event of a nuclear attack. The Interstate system was designed so that one mile in every five must be straight, usable as airstrips in times of war or other emergencies. "

Just like "the internet" it's big bros. idea and thank God we give some social "dogooder" an equal say in it's use.

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mconn — GMT

"Socialist drivel , how fast you drive should be a personal choice (within reason of course, Most everyone would agree that barreling down the road at 115 MPH in a blizzard is unsafe)."

One of the funniest comments I've heard in the whole discussion. It begs the reply; Who's reason ? The college kid that thinks it's safe to drive a Prism 100 mph while using pot analogy to make a point.

How about barrelling down the road at 115 mph on a clear day. Reason is something that is short supply on the public highway during rush hour.

Do you think it's reasonable to tailgate or cut you off at an exit ? Gee, we ve just given that same guy his own reason to choose his speed instead law enforcement.

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B.L.E. — GMT

If a shrill minority of sanctimonious do-gooders manage to bring back the widely loathed 55 mph speed limit, I predict it will result in the most widespread preponderance of civil disobedience since the Prohibition era. Just like the last time we tried it.

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

desertdarlene — GMT

Well, it sounds good in theory. But, as others have said before, you can put the speed limit at 40mph and people will still be driving at least 70mph. People will drive whatever speed they feel like because most people don't get caught.

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

Drive55 — GMT

Prove it yourself! Attached is a free download you can print out and use to record your savings. Thanks for participating!

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FoDaddy — GMT

Socialist drivel , how fast you drive should be a personal choice (within reason of course, Most everyone would agree that barreling down the road at 115 MPH in a blizzard is unsafe). But what about the emissions? Today's cars are essentially non-polluting; the exhaust of some of the really clean cars (PZEV) is cleaner than the air going into the engine. But what about the rising cost of oil? What you drive is a personal choice; nobody should tell you what you can and can't drive. Road conditions permitting I routinely drive 85 - 90 MPH on the highway. My time is more valuable than saving a few bucks on gas.

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

Drive55 — GMT

Drive 55 Conservation Project Action Plan (http://www.Drive55.org)

There are three levels of activity contemplated.

Level One is Voluntary modification of driving behavior via a public relations campaign anchored by a recognizable design on bumper stickers for motor vehicles. The stickers serve to make the driver more conscientious while informing other drivers that the vehicle is observing the 55 MPH speed limit.

Supported by a multi media campaign with messaging geared toward benefits of slowing down, the bumper stickers will create community and encourage other drivers to join the trend. Project experience has revealed that it can actually be unnerving and unsafe to drive 55 mph if others are doing 85, therefore safety will be improved by having a way to notify speeders of the drivers intention.

Level Two is Direct Regulation, first legislatively and then by law enforcement. Political will on the part of the legislature, especially by a few key leaders, is required to write new law. CHP must be provided sufficient resources if mandated to step up enforcement, however structured carefully, CHP activities will pay for themselves.

Level Three effort would combine Market Based Compliance with Direct Regulation by including taxing vehicles by horsepower vs. weight and seatbelts, carbon tax on fuels, and pollution tax on wear items such as tires and brakes.

We seek to try the easiest and lowest cost Level One effort first and propose a $1 million dollar budget to roll out an initial campaign. The budget would provide 10% for management, 40% for bumper stickers printing & distribution, and 30% for a multi media ad campaign with a 20% contingency fund.

To measure the effectiveness of the campaign will require a separate statistical analysis of historical data. Since it is a purely voluntary program it would be very difficult to quantify and is therefore outside the scope of a Level One effort. Levels Two and Three would provide useful data that could be analyzed to quantify benefits but also require more extensive planning that will be better accomplished after a level one effort has been implemented.
Cost Effectiveness Calculation and Assumptions

To calculate the cost effectiveness of the Voluntary campaign one simple approach would be to budget $1 million each year until 2020 for the campaign for a total project cost of $12 million.

Using the 2004 baseline Road Transportation Emissions figure of 166.747 MMT CO2E and data from the EPA memo (attached) annual reductions could be as high as 20.7%, and even if the reduction turns out to be only 1% that would still be an impressive 1.7 MMT per year for a total reduction of 20.4 MMT by 2020. $12 million divided by 20 MMT works out to about $600,000 per MMT.

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mconn — GMT

Speeding between 65 and 100 on a daily basis...spoken like a true immortal. Had a 2002 Chevy Prism and though capable of near 100 mph, not that safe and a threat to everyone else on the road. If you had a Vette, you'd have an arguement.

Let's see, 55 mph is 10 under the 65 mph speed limit and 100 is 35 over....big brother should get involved in your personal life, in big way. You could get involved in a very personal way in everyone elses who is obeying the speed limit trying to get home to their family.

You have to be joking......sonny.

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

Trulyrandommh — GMT

Seriously now, what the heck are you talking about? If you're soo worried about the gas mileage you're getting because you're doing 75 and not 55, get off the freeway and take slower speed limit roads. I am a college student that has a very low income, but I still drive anywhere between 65 and 100 on a daily basis, while cruising on the freeway (and I'm driving a 2002 Chevrolet Prism, which is a twin of the the Toyota Corolla of the same year, minus the interior). But, there is no need to get the Government more involved in my personal life, especially when it comes to driving! Heck, they can't handle the taxation system with a agency as big as the IRS (with soo much power), so what makes you think they're gonna do any better with a speed limit? People are going to go as fast as they want to regardless what you post the speed limit! Just take that into consideration! Lastly, think of it like Marijuana! It's illegal Nationwide and we all know nobody has it, right? Point stated and by the way, the Focus, my first car I ever owned, did just fine at much higher speeds! What kinda car have you been driving, gramps?

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

tdyls111 — GMT

It would be much safer for everyone if everyone drove THREE MPH. That's it, let's make the national speed limit 3 and just think of all of the gas and lives we'd save! Yeah, great idea.

Most people will drive the speed that they feel is reasonable for the road. Yes there will be a few amphetamine-crazed maniacs who will try to break the sound barrier, and there are a few bluehairs who will think that anything above 4 MPH will give them a heart attack. The biggest impact to gas mileage is the rate of accelleration, not speed. And the best ways to make the roads safe are (1) get rid of idiots and (2) have everyone drive at the same speed. Notice I did NOT say have everyone drive 55. If everyone is driving 70, and 70 is an appropriate speed for a normal driver, then everyone needs to drive 70. Case in point: I-75 through Atlanta....it's posted at 55 or 65 (depending on where you are), yet everyone drives 70+. And as long as you don't have some idiot trying to do 90, or weaving like a sine curve, or yakking on their cell phone while trying to prove the Big Bang theory while eating a Big Mac and reading the newspaper, then it will be safe.

I still remember a speed study done in the mid-1990's for I-285 around Atlanta: one part had an average speed of 92 MPH. That's one reason why I no longer live in Atlanta.......

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Z69105 — GMT

You know what - ultimately, it's gonna be $100 a tank gasoline which brings more fuel efficent vehicles to market.

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Craig58 — GMT

It depends what part of the country you are in; many of the western interstates have 75 mph limits (so most people drive 75-85), a lot of mid-west/southern states seem to have about 65 mph limits (so most people drive 75-85), most NY highways (except the NY thruway) have a 55 mph limit (so most people drive 75-85). Here in CO, a lot of two lane county roads have either 55 or 65 mph limits (which are usually more or less obeyed). The point is that people (on average) are usually going to travel at a speed that is appropriate for the type of road.

I agree that people have very little incentive to slow down with $3 gasoline, when it gets to $6 you may see some impact.

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Vogelfish — GMT

Can't modify the shape with paint - only the color. Store the used skins in the landfill with everything else!!!

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Z69105 — GMT

Uh...get it repainted?

Besides, where would you store the unused skins?

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Vogelfish — GMT

Let's try the typing thing again..

They should take the lead from cell phones and other handheld electronics and start producing cars that have "skins". If you don't litle the way it LOOKS - pop off the shell and pop on a new one! That could create a whole new market for automobile accessories!

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Vogelfish — GMT

They should take the lead from cell phones and other handheld electronics and start producing cars that have "skins". If you don't litle the way it works - pop off the shell and pop on a new one! That could create a whole new market for automobile accessories!

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

Mitsy12 — GMT

Personally, I thought the limit had been raised to 60 in most states. I think the 55 limit should be a thing of the past. 60 should be the new limit for two-lane highways and 70 should be the limit for interstates. It is 60 for two-lanes in Missouri. But quite honestly, does it make a lot of difference when we're paying $3.00 and more per gallon for gas? I keep reading about how the auto makers of the U.S. COULD be making more fuel-efficient cars. But if you go to the car web sites (Honda, Toyota, Ford, GM, & Chrysler), what you'll see is just more SUB type vehicles and what few "fuel efficient" cars they do have are butt ugly. As I've posted before, I'd buy a Prius for the mileage alone, but the looks are nothing to brag about. Same can be said for the God-awful looking Civic. Even the non-hybrid Civic makes me ill. What's with our car companies? They complain about weak sales but then offer customers little in the way of incentives to buy? If they can't give us better mileage, then you'd think they could give us something to be wowed about. Looks like NEITHER are what they are offering.

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Z69105 — GMT

Or come over here to Maryland and try 65mph on I-295 between Washington, DC and the Delaware border.

Prevailing speed is 90MPH. No, I'm not kidding.

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

todd.burmeister — GMT

If you really want to see how well the 55 mph works, come to Chicago and take I-90 West. Through the western suburbs the posted speed limit is 55. If you attempt to travel at that speed (even in the right lane) you will be greeted by tailgaters, flashing brights, being cut off, and of course the finger. Most drivers are moving at speeds from 65 mph to 90 mph. Even the trucks are moving at 65 mph. Once you pass the Elgin area and the speed limit increases to 65 mph traffic actually slows down to about 70 mph. 55 didn't work, doesn't work, and won't work!

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Docnick — GMT

That was about 1902, I believe when the first speeding ticket was handed out to a motorist. The speed limit in those days was determined by bicycles and trotting horses.

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Craig58 — GMT

Don't tell them that, they will propose a national speed limit of 8 mph (only slightly more ridiculous than 55 mph).

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Docnick — GMT

Each country publishes accident and fatality rate per million miles or kilometers. The Germans are the most precise, since they are forever defending their "no speed limit" policy on the autobahns. ADAC is the German Auto club. AAA in the US has many statistics, as of course NHTSA.

The Dutch government (federal, small counry) has conclude that 140 km/hr (87 mph)is a reasonable speed on their expressways; it keeps drivers alert and makes maximum use of expensive roads.

Fuel mileage (consumption)is always measured against the value of TIME, by no matter who or where. As the automobile developed, we went from the first speeding ticket fo 8 mph to the present.

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mconn — GMT

You can Google the ups and downs, pros and cons all over the net of 55 mph and get what ever you want for conclusions on it's efficacy. So much of the conclusions you can dRAW FOR safety is tainted by inclusion of airbags, head restraints and all the other mandated safety features in use now that MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO statistically conclude that 55 is safer....same with more efficient cars in general today vs yesterday.....and the beat goes on and we all argue out point of fews from our own preconceived ideas and look for "facts" that back us up.

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MartyB — GMT

I have a favor to ask: A lot of posts have made reference to mileage/fuel economy at different speeds and/or with cars of various vintage, effects on accident/death rates, road capacity at different speed limits, et cetera... Can anyone give me some citations, or copies of source material, that actually sets out this information in a factual/analytical/citable way? I would like to join the discussion, but I feel the need for data.... Thank you for indulging my compulsive tendencies. MartyB < resod25600@mypacks.net >

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Craig58 — GMT

It really doesn't matter if the UAW or management, or both, killed them; they're still dead. What I actually said was that the UAW (like other american labor unions) is no longer relevant. The sooner that these companies get the rest of their manufacturing jobs moved offshore, the better off they will be. Their management teams have proven that they are not capable of controlling U.S. labor costs (probably a combination of union greed and management incompetence for many years), so they are just getting what they deserve. Personally, I think it is too little-too late and they will all be gone in a couple of decades anyway. Maybe they will end up being purchased by other manufacturers (i.e., toyota), so the names might survive.

I agree that it is dumb (bad PR) to give management bonuses in a dying company, but it probably doesn't really matter at this point. They probably need the bonuses to keep these guys from bailing out of the sinking ship and going to the asian competitors. Someone has to be left to turn out the lights.

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Docnick — GMT

Agree that the malaise of the US carmakers is mostly management's fault. When Ford had record losses, its president still made 5 times the salary of Toyota's president!

Sweden and Germany have very high wages and benefits, but the uunions are more flexible in implementing productivity improvements, and healthcare is a federal government responsiblity in both countries.

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MikeInNH — GMT

I agree, a weak dollar makes (non-union) U.S. labor more attractive, and the UAW is no longer relevant (about time, they've done enough damage already).

Don't blame the current GM and Ford crisis on the UAW....GM and Ford upper management have to take a major portion of this problem....When the UAW negotiated with them for their current benefits....GM and Ford were bringing in HUGH profits....They had the money then to shore up the benefits...and they REFUSED to do it....They choose instead to award these OBSCENE BONUS packages to upper management....WELL OVER $100M/yr. Now years later the UAW is being blamed for this problem.

I will agree their benefits package is well over the top....But GM/Ford and Chryco could easily have avoided this problem....but they choose to be greedy.

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Craig58 — GMT

I agree, a weak dollar makes (non-union) U.S. labor more attractive, and the UAW is no longer relevant (about time, they've done enough damage already).

I also agree that "just in time" manufacturing is more conducive to trucks than rails, but that usually involves shorter distances between the supplier and the fabricator.

It will be very interesting to see if rail starts winning some long haul market share as fuel prices increase. I don't think it's going to happen overnight, but we'll see.

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Docnick — GMT

The cost of ocean transportation from China to the US is miniscule compared to the price of the product. However,for larger items like cars, the dropping dollar will result in more Japanese, European and Korean cars to be built in North America. The UAW will still lose, since those cars will be built in mostly non-union plants.

Rail transport is traditionally cheaper than truck, but in Lean Manufacturing, as practiced by most Japanese firms now, the supply chain is best managed with trucks, and parts plants located close to the assembly plants. Goods are shipped in small batches with Lean Manufacturing.

Bulk commodoties will always be shipped mostly by rail, unless waterways are convenient.

Shipping finished goods across the country will be the battleground between rail and truck, since railways can also do the hub % spoke bit, like Federal Express. Slow speed and lack of flexibility has penalized the railways, but some, like Union pacific, have struck back and developed good intermodal rail/truck systems.

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Craig58 — GMT

Well, if you are correct consumer goods are about to get much more expensive. That's OK with me, I think we all buy to much crap anyway; but not everyone is going to be able to afford the increases and it is likely to be inflationary.

I certainly agree that U.S. labor will always be more expensive than transportation (that's why U.S. manufacturing is dead), the question becomes; what type of transportation will be the cheapest in 20 years?

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mconn — GMT

"Drive across KS or NE and try to tell me that they couldn't upgrade and/or increase the number of tracks, and take a look at the number of unnecessary trucks on I-70 and I-80 (which run right along the tracks for 100s of miles). Never underestimate what can happen when driven by economics.

You make my point exactly, KS and NE are no longer the ideal train routes they used to be, farm goods are one thing, cargo dispersment to poulation centers and beyond requires trains whose beds are out dated and short haul, and load exchange, an expense that we circumvented by the "cantainer" era. Load'm in Hong kong. unload'm any where in the US. Killing the long Shoreman Union. Labor will ALWAYS be more expensive than transportation....train era still not happening.

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ybnrmal — GMT

I don't worry about them----it actually makes me chuckle. Breaks up the trip---just don't look at them when they finally get around you....phew! lol

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Craig58 — GMT

Don't worry about it if you are in the correct lane, they can go around you. In the mountains there are always plenty of trucks driving slowly anyway, there's nothing they can do about it.

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ybnrmal — GMT

I have to wonder about the drivers though, that bring their distress upon themselves by not planning ahead and getting stuck behind me in the right lane. They are the ones that I worry about. They get so mad at me for their own stupidity at not being a better driver and actually watching what's going on on the road ahead of them. Get over into the passing lane people! lol Don't try to sneak in farther up the line of cars! You'll just get stuck! They're the ones that kill me (not literally......yet...lol). I try to take the state highways because of this. I don't want to bother people....I just want to do my little part (saving gas) in my little part of the world that I have influence over. But-through the mountains------got to be the interstates if you don't want to take hours longer to get somewhere.

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FoDaddy — GMT

As long as you’re putting along is the right lane, and are not creating a traffic hazard (your speed vs. the prevailing average speed). Then I have no problem with it, just keep in mind there are many more people who value time saved by driving faster over saving a few gallons of gas, so you're going to get nasty looks regardless.

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Craig58 — GMT

I have no problem with people voluntarily driving more slowly, as long as they are aware of other traffic on the road. If fuel gets expensive (and I have time), I might be one of those folks too, Im just not going to be required to drive slowly by some "one size fits all" rule.

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

ybnrmal — GMT

I drove the grandkids to Tulsa this summer down route 66 to see the Bonneville being unburied. I used $300 worth of gas to get there. (Conversion van that we camped in.) On the way back we drove the interstates but I tried to keep it between 65 and 70. Used $500 gas on the way back. I believe that is significant. If you are interested in "green" things, at least. I try to drive 55-60 in the right lane on the highway but I sure do deal with a lot of hostility. Those of you that say it's okay for us to do that need to lighten up on us "55-ers". I'm not tied to my cruise control. When I need to pass a truck or a slower car I'll take it up to 70 or 75. I try to stay out of the way but still get the glares and fingers and fists. It's all rather disconcerting. What say you?

Re: 55 mph...it's time has come.

Vogelfish — GMT

Craig writes, "that is is not sustainable for the long term."

Another nail hit squarely on the head! This is all about sustainability of of our lifestyle. Looking ahead, what do we have to do now to prevent our eventual demise - and more difficult - how do we as the few - get we as the many to make small changes today to avoid a disaster in the future.

Again I agree with Craig - you can't use mandates to force change - we should use what our society and country is built upon - free market forces.

So if free market forces should do the trick for us... then why are they aparantly not working?

I think it's because we haven't allowed our free market forces to act freely and we have shifted the real costs of things to places where the resulting market forces are pushing in the wrong places. Example - the government builds and maintains our highway transportation infrastructure - but it doesn't pay for that by charging the right people the right price. The result is we have artificially cheap transportation and we are angry about how much income tax is taken.

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Vogelfish — GMT

"With proper incentives. "

Like high cost of gasoline?