<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Japanese cars reliability

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?"]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/12202.page Public Action Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1066815 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1066815 GMT Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? The American cars today are are a lot better.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1066640 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1066640 GMT Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
My personal perspective is that it speaks of the fall of giants. Up through the 1960s GM and Ford built the best cars in the world bar none. Caddys and Lincolns were the finest affordable luxury cars and the "working class" sedans were the most durable and reliable for their time. Italian iron was (and is) sexy but demanding and finicky. European vehicles were fun and cheap but unreliable.

Yup, that conclusion was unanimous. Not one person was not in agreement that European cars are less reliable and more expensive to maintain.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1056908 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1056908 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
Going back through the posts, there seems to be a general conclusion that European cars are both unreliable and expensive to maintain.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1056644 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1056644 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
Each poster that stated an opinion gets one position placement no matter how many posts he/she made.

The "statement" paraphrased is that Japanese cars are better quality.
The results, rounded, are:

The statements is true: 56%
The statement was true in the past, but the "American" brands are closing/have almost closed the gap: 32%
The statement is false: 12%

Make of it what you will.
]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055448 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055448 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1051232 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1051232 GMT Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1054251 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1054251 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1051218 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1051218 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1051026 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1051026 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
As for the recommended part of the list, I ignore their recommendations. I use IIHS and NHTSA for crash test results. But I despise it when CR refuses to recommend a car because they thought the seats were uncomfortable. I'll be the judge of what's comfortable to me, thank you.

But from experience of myself, friends, and family, the repair records and costs really are basically insignificantly different on anything rated average or better.

I would certainly avoid a Ford Windstar (much worse than average), for instance, though... In fact I'd avoid all minivans but the Sienna. The Odyssey's transmission reliability has been abysmal by modern standards, so... And GM didn't ever bother to even try on their designs, IMO...]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1057638 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1057638 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
These statistics indicate that if a vehicle is MUCH WORSE THAN AVERAGE(black ball) in a category that is key, such as engine, transmission, body rust or electrical, it should be avoided. I will never recommend a vehicle with significant weak points to anybody.

Since there is a choice in the market place, I would pick a highly rated car over one that isn't. I recently bought a new Toyota Corolla, and priced similar cars. A Ford Focus with the same equipment cost $700 less, not worthwhile considering the shorter design life and lower reliability. If the Focus had cost $3500 less, I might have bought it, since that difference in price buys several transmission overhauls, for instance. A Dodge minivan selling for $9000 less than a Honda Odessey is a good buy if you do not use it for commuting to work.

On the other hand, the Hyundai Elantra, which had a sterling repair record failed the recommended list by CU since it did not meet their head-on collision measure. There is a car I have recommnded to most of my friends.

Most of my friends who have bought US cars and minivans have had good service the first 4 years or so, then problems became increasingly more frequent. The economic life expectancy of a US car vs a Japnaese is considerably shorter, so this has to be entered into the calculations as well.

My sister is an accountant and has tracked the life cycle cost of all their vehicles. They owned Ford and GM vehicles until 1986, when they switched to Toyotas. The ownership costs dropped significantly and the time they kept vehicles went from 6 years to 10 years of useful life in a highly corrosive urban environment around the Great Lakes.

So, draw your own conclusions; as a well known politician once remarked; "Statistics are like a bikini swimsuit; what they reveal is suggestive, but what they hide is vital!"

]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055286 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055286 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
The problem is that people don't understand statistics.

You have a source like Consumer Reports showing VERY small differences between brands, and people accept it as fact, without even wondering what the margin of error is. Remember that the average sample size for a vehicle is around 200-300. Then look at problem rates for individual systems (http://www...ories-406/).

What it comes down to is simple - the differences, if they exist, are overblown. You're looking at **AVERAGE** major engine problem rates for 10 year old vehicles of just 4% on a survey with small sample sizes, voluntary and unverified responses.

Think about it for a minute - at the beginning of November 2004, Gallup had Kerry beating Bush by 4% in Ohio among likely voters, 7% among registered. That was with a significantly larger sample size than we get in this statistical data. Acutally, that was with about 6 TIMES as many responses as Consumer Reports gets to analyze a model.

And we know how accurate that result was - with Bush winning Ohio 51% to 49%.

So what am I saying?

The statistical data does not support the theory that Japanese models are better in reliability. Margins of error are simply far too large for that. It does not support the theory that an "excellent" vehicle has a statistically significant lead over an "average" vehicle.

The statistical data DOES support the theory that average vehicles are pretty danged good. 92% of Toyotas are rated average or better. So it DOES support the theory that Toyotas are pretty danged good. But 93% of Fords are rated average or better..... So.....
]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055262 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055262 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
Those that praise US cars have usually had good experience with them, unlike German car owners who will massage the truth due to their intense loyalty to their favorate brand.

Since US cars are cheap to fix, and parts are readily available, you will still see many of the larger ones , and pickups, running since it is cost-effective to do so.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055254 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055254 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
The smart person who drives the MB's, BMW's, Audi's, Lexus' will tell you that they lease the cars and not purchase them. They know that while some of the ones mentioned have a good dependable long-term driving record, the risk of costly repair/future maintenance checks will steer them away from having them past the factory warranty. This i imagine would result in a skewed opinion about their dependability. Not many surveys are conducted re-sold vehicles, and if owners only keep it for a 2-4 year period, chances are things are gonna seem pretty darn near perfect. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055416 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1055416 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
A good example is Mercedes vs Lexus. A used Mercedes fetches a highe price in spite of the poor reliability and very high maintenance cost. Most Asian Amercians, for example, strongly prefer Mercedes over, say, Lexus, regardless of how much it costs to keep it running. How long this reputation will last is anyone's guess. Similarly, Land Rover models have high resale value.

Classic Mustangs were very poorly constructed, but kept up their resale value until they fell apart.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1054422 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1054422 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
BTW as for your rental fleet argument: You will find that an increasing number of car rental companies, Hertz or Avis for example are expanding and replacing their fleet vehicles to accomodate more imported brands i.e. Camry's and Accords. Have you seen changes in their resale values? Honda and Toyota has outsold itself every year running, making more cars than ever before... Are they flooding the market? As a dealer rep, we sold 300 Hondas a year to Hertz, that was just my dealership. Still, resale value of those cars remained the same. Toyota sells countless Tacomas to business fleets, yet it has the highest resale value amongst small p/ups. Why is that? you think these companies are making bad business decisions? Do you think they are trying to get a better return on their purchase? Simple economics will go only so far shortyoh. Fact remains, as you say, PERCEPTION is the true culprit and large part of depreciation- not through increased supply, but the lack of demand. That perception though is a result of the brands' reputation and reliability history....can argue that?]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1052620 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1052620 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
There are MANY factors affecting depreciation. One such factor is the availability of used vehicles. The Ford Taurus you use as an example is a perfect fit for this. A very large percentage of Taurus sales were to fleets, particularly rental fleets. As a result, you have a glut of used 1-2 year old used Tauruses on the market used. Simple economics will tell you this will depress resale values.

There's also the factor of simple *PERCEPTION*. No one who ever has stated that depreciation indicates reliability has EVER been able to explain why the Chevrolet Prizm routinely sells for a fraction of the price of a Toyota Corolla.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1052458 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1052458 GMT Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1052433 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1052433 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
My wife's friend is trying to sell a very clean Dodge Neon since they are downsizing, and nobody seems to want it. The last repair on this car cost $1400.

In other words, a Taurus, Impala or Crown Victoria will last a long time if you put some new parts into them and do regular maintenance. The same is true for US pickup trucks.

If you do a detailed and disciplined life cycle cost analyis, you might find a 3 year old low mileage Taurus (very cheap) to be a better buy than a 3 year old Honda Accord (very expensive). If you have to buy a new car evry 3 or 4 years, then a Japanese car is definiely cheaper because of the higher resale value.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1052028 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1052028 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? No doubt to all those reading and writing have heard at some point or another about the reliability of Japanese cars, their projected longevity, and their small upkeep contributions. It was a fact in the past and there is endless data to support it. Truth of the matter is that as much as we like to bang our chests in self-accomplishment of how far american branded automobiles have progressed in the aforementioned fields, the improvements that "we" have made have barely kept pace with improvements of the Japanese cars. Point being, with the exception of a few aging examples, anyone can agree that generally speaking the reputation of the Japanese brands has always been of high regard and somewhat of a "nude" model in our 7th grade sex-ed class. (Don't know but maybe today its done at the 4th grade level- How sad)
I agree there are arguments and instances where one can point out successes in our domestic vehicles and out-performance over the oriental competition. They are largely out-numbered, and represent the common passive attitude "Hey, at least we didn't get any worse!"
Well, whatever the case may be, let's assume that there is a Ford Accord(rolls nicely off the tongue doesn't it?) or maybe a Dodge Tundra. Ha!! In an even playing field such as this, there is NO-one that would be able to contest the fact that a car has a limited lifetime, provide essentially the same transportation, and lastly cost money. Again, assuming the first variable is the same accross the board, and the second one being trivial, lets look at the money part of it. I mean let's reeeaaallly look at it. Open up your payment coupon, or buyer's order for the car (assuming everyone has a basic understanding and knowledge of how to not get taken advantage of) and we would agree that based on the class of car and purpose, cars all cost about the same nowadays american or japanese. Either domestics have increased in price, or japanese ones are now somewhat of a bargain, who knows? -i dont care. Maintenance costs: Imported cars will generaly be more expensive, however for regularly scheduled service, its about the same. Remember now, longevity and repairs we are assuming to be equal. So we bought the car for the same, paid the same to maintain it, now comes the most emotional part- Geting rid of it. Any mother out there can tell you that having your child leave for college or the military can be dramatic and teary. I've met people who reacted the same about cars! I'm sure those who have owned 200K+ mileadge cars will agree that it had, or at least you considered giving it a name, required loving care with duct tape and glue, and beleived in its personality and character, despite how weather had tarnished its once appealing make-up. No car looks good when its old, we all feel the need to eventually keep up with the Jones' and upgrade to something a little fancier, perhaps the new DVD technology or creature comforts available today. Little Timmy won't throw a boredom tantrum anymore on the way to grandma's. Above denying children the rightful act of discipline and humbleness, i imagine that we should go further and make it easier for them to drop out and one day literally live in a car down by the river. Anyways, back to the point. So we are at the time of "trading-in" your beloved Betsy. No one will love Betsy the way you do and at the time of deal negotiations it will fel like a slap in the face when a dollar amount is revealed for your beloved. You may want to argue or explain this, or emphasize that, and no matter what, at one point you will face the fact that a car is not an investment. If it was, we'd be bankrupt to say the least. But IF it were an investment, reports, auctions, and research will conclude that Japanese vehicles "hold" their value significantly better than domestics. It really is astonishing to see the figures, pull it up sometime. FYI, The last bodystyle Ford Taurus (once an american icon for the middle class 2.3 children household affluent family) lost over 50% of its value in a 6-month window. I could get a better return seling molded bread (Some people will actually appreciate the ergot-led psychadellics). Seriously, case-matter point, this variable describes it all. KBB supports it, Edmunds, JDP, and every consumer survey and transaction. If both of these cars are similarly reliable, and cost the same, why such a drastic difference in their depreciation? Well i could demean the domestic product endlessly, think about your justification, their not hard to come by. But DEPRECIATION or lack thereof (Import Hybrids to a degree) is the reasoning and explanation of why so many people praise and stand by their trusty Corolla or Civic and not by their sled-like Taurus or Cavalier. Any person that does not agree with that, must really think about getting into a relationship with something that grows hair.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1051015 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1051015 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1050475 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1050475 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1049229 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1049229 GMT Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1050844 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1050844 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
Maintenance and repairs will be reasonably prioced, and the reduced reliability will not be much of an issue if you don't have to show up for work.

Japanese cars make the most sense for high mileage drivers and those that cannot tolerate downtime.

If this is damming with faint praise, so be it!]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1050681 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1050681 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? And now I drivc a Ford, so go figure!!
Are American cars getting better, definitely yes. But they still suffer from the decision making by accountants rather than engineers.
The only segment that has really lost it is the Europeans. After 1994 Mercedees has managed to work itself into the bottom pit of quality and customer satisfaction. Two of my friends have owned Audis, and both have been stranded in new vehicles atleast once. And the dealerships are very arrogant and tough to deal with.
I would say, save your money and get a Ford or a GM car if you dont plan on keeping it forever. If you plan on long ownership, you cannot beat Japenese (Toyota & Honda). But whatever you do dont throw away your money at the European vehicles.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1049228 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1049228 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
Never any serious issues owning a domestic(Jeep), German(VW) or Japanese(Subaru, Honda) vehicle. All said I don't really think any were any better or worse than the other with regards to reliability.

Buy what pleases you so you will be more motivated to maintain it and drive it carefully. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1048823 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1048823 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? So, my conclusions are: never to buy another American car; never buy another Mitsubishi; and I am leary about buying another Honda. It seems to me that no car is made very well these days.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1048814 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1048814 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? Um, I hate to mention this, but Hyundai is NOT a Japanese brand. Hyundai is a Korean brand.

I don't see where he ever said Hyundai was a Japanese vehicle. He just said his mechanic friend told him Japanese vehicles are easier to work on. Never said HIS JAPANESE car was easier to work on.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1046630 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1046630 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
You needed help from a "mechanic guy" to change the spark plugs in your A6. Understandable. Why do you complain when this "guy" tells you Japanese cars are easier to work on? Especially since your other car is NOT Japanese?

Think before you post.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1046222 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1046222 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
I would imagine that that might holds true for farmers and other businesses as well. It's cheaper buying an "American brand" truck under warrentee that can be serviced quickly, than waiting around for parts for a Toyota, even though the repairs may be less frequent.

Chevy/GMC dealers out number Toyota deakerships in this area, so guess what. More trucks bought for bussinesses from them. One Toyota dealership in 50 miles, gives you too few options.

Other reasons NOT to buy the most reliable product.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1046218 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1046218 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
I can't even count how many times I've seen this. For some reason many people assume, incorrectly, that "warranty" pays for those things and when reality hits, the complaining, cursing, BBB complaints, and threats to consumer agencies start.
I've seen people threaten to quit making their new car payments because of a simple oil change not being paid for. So what. Don't pay and the repop guy will be after the car.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1045472 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1045472 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1048639 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1048639 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
When you combine that with their sample sizes of around 300 per model per model year, the actual complaint rates in each system are so low that we're talking just 1 or 2 complaints comprising the entire list of complaints for an AVERAGE new car....]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1044216 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1044216 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? Consumer Reports, J.D. Power, etc. really grate on me because when something is logged on no one knows how a question is phrased, if a complaint has any legitimacy, etc.

The unknown story behind a complaint can sometimes be 180 off and does not reflect on vehicle quality at all. This occurs with any brand though, be it N. Amer., Asian, or European. Without going into details, a few examples.
1. Woman buys new car, thinks we are too expensive on an oil change, and proceeds to have the Jiffy Lube wipe her engine out an hour later. Whose fault? Us and the car itself.
2. Air Force officer curses his car because he ran it out of gas not once, but THREE times in less than 2 weeks. (Car ran great, no problems.)
3. Woman slides her 2 week old car on the ice and into the ditch, ruining the RF fender and suspension. Curses car because warranty won't pay for it.
4. Gentleman buys new car, has early oil change at the JL, which omitted the drain plug gasket leading to a leak. 10k miles later (after never checking the oil or changing it again) the engine blew up. Whose fault? The car of course.

I've got a million of those and this is why CR, Power, and whatnot leave a bit lacking. One never knows why those complaints are lodged.

If one compares a new SAAB owner to a new Honda owner you can bet that the SAAB guy is going to be much more nitpicky, even over perceived problems that do not exist, and will have more of a tendency to complain.

One time a very well to do lady bought a new conversion van from us (weird match to be honest) and decided after 3 or 4 days that this van was a royal PITA to jockey around in city traffic. She brought in it with not one, but FIVE complete repair orders full of complaints (about 35-40 gripes altogether). About 2 were legit; the rest was carping over nothing. She then demanded we take the van back at full price and when this did not work she was standing on the side of the 4 lane at 7 the next morning waving at every car and holding a large 4 x6 sign with a lemon painted on it.
Wonder how she replied to CR? :-)

As I've stated before, I think the Asians build fine cars but the domestics get trashed unnecessarily. Domestic trucks are extremely popular where I live for example and believe me, these trucks take a beating due to high mileage, environmental conditions, and the fact they're generally pulling heavy loads (1 ton hay bales, stock trailers with half a dozen steers, etc.). If these vehicles were trouble prone I assure you these chintzy farmers and ranchers would not be buying them and the BBB would be clogged with complaints. That is not the case.
]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1043870 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1043870 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
I do think that the Toyotas make a good first impression. We also own a Toyota 4Runner that my wife drives. The fit and finish and overall feel seem better than the minivans I have owned with the American nameplate. I do remember in 1970 a fellow graduate student, who was on the road supervising student teachers, had a Datsun that was giving him a lot of grief. He traded it for a Ford Maverick which he thought was great.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1043014 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1043014 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042908 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042908 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
No offense but you are comparing apples & oranges, or piles of crap to real cars. Plymouths (IMOO) never had any quality but Subarus do. You cannot compare a Vega to a Rolls (ONLY FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES).]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1048637 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1048637 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
However, the dash padding has separated a tiny bit (2-3 mm) - TSB out there that explains how to fix this for all of $3 in glue.

I'm too lazy to worry about a minor cosmetic defect.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1043025 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1043025 GMT Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042626 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042626 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
Other bros. buys used Taurus's and spends much less as well by not trying to get more than 150K out of them.....and again, breaks down more often,,,,,but with much cheaper repair. So if it's money you want to save, a smart buy in an American brand may do it. Just have a good tow man on your cell or AAA.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1040433 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1040433 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
While working at multi-line dealers (exc. Nissan which was solo) the shop would have as many Hondas and Subarus in it as VWs and SAABs. Each have their own unigue problems and in spite of the Subaru loyalty by their owners I will say that Subarus have provided me my biggest paychecks and why is that? Maintenance heavy and somewhat trouble prone. (And I'm not a Subaru hater; have owned 3 of them.)

It's fashionable to really bash the so-called Big Three cars, especially from back in the 70s, as being slugs and trouble prone. Sure these Big Three cars had teething problems. Thank your local EPA and your neighbor who demands increased fuel economy and clean air. At the time, this was the best technology available for the current situation. Thank the Europeans for promoting ECU controlled fuel injection, which has cleaned things up a lot.

Many of these problems were related to emission heavy carburetion, vacuum hoses, and whatnot. The part that is never mentioned is that the Asian cars suffered the same problems but seem to get a pass. I have yet to ever see a post on any forum about this particular area unless I'm the one that made it. I kind of feel that I can speak with authority on this because I'm the poor schmuck who had to wrestle those greasy pigs.

And as I've always stated, Consumer Reports, J.D. Power, or any other survey can be used as a small tool in formulating a decision but there are too many unknowns on any complaint, etc. to decide whether the car is at fault, or as many times happens, the owner is at fault. I've read auto complaints on other sites including the EPA and combined with what I've personally heard over the years, some of those car owners just amaze me to put it politely.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1038827 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1038827 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042816 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042816 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042620 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042620 GMT Re: Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?

My daughter lives in NH too. Agrees....you get what you pay for, and NH may have no sales tax and lower taxes otherwise (not property tax though)

We don't have a sales tax..or income tax...and property tax is higher then many states it's still far cheaper then NY.

Our state school system UNH is OK. You get what you pay for. We only have 3 main campuses. But we're also a very small state...1.3m people. At least we live close to Boston where there's a lot of EXCELLENT colleges to choose from. The only really good college we have in NH is Dartmouth. Boston has at least 5...and I actually live closer to Boston then Hanover.

NH does have some EXCELLENT private high-schools...and also very expensive....$30k+/yr.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042226 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1042226 GMT Re: Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
Daughter wanted to continue to Med school...dad couldn't afford it. Son was Math major and transfered to business (for the money) , Would have loved to see a tuition for committment program and we would have had another doctor and math person instead of a therapist and store manager.

]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1040430 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1040430 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? If you re-read my posts..and my posts in other threads where we discussed this...I DON'T disagree with you. I firmly believe that EDUCATION is far more important and our government doesn't spend nearly enough on it. And you are 100% correct...the top tier students have a lot more opportunities. If you're a good B+ student and only score 1400 on your SAT's you better start saving because there is no scholarship money for you. Take out student loans and even at a state school expect to owe $200k+ when you graduate in 4 years. My oldest got a Full ride to MIT (they like students who score 1570 on their SATs). My son has been offered a couple Scholarships to BC and Syracuse University. Was accepted to Harvard, but we make too much money to get any grant from them. If he chooses to go to Harvard....there goes my savings....

Some state school programs are decent...NY has a very very good state school system (SUNY). Far better then New Hampshire...and cheaper. But you have to live in NY and the taxes are so much higher then in NH that they pretty much offset the cost difference.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1040011 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1040011 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
You just did a better job making my point than I did.....thanks ! ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1038032 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1038032 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1038030 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1038030 GMT Re: Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth?
A GM executive once admitted that one day in ten they build cars as good as Honda and Toyota, and that's only assembly quality, not DESIGN QUALITY.

Don't expect this excellent performance with a Mitsubishi car or an American designed and rushed into production Nissan, Honda or Toyota full size pickup.

If US car companies had a longer term focus, the gap would close quicker.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1037814 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1037814 GMT Re: Japanese cars reliability - true or myth? http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1036621 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/952809.page#1036621 GMT