Dr. Martin Eisele of Evergreen Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine is the guest on this month's Science Cafe, a call-in show airing Tuesday, January 27, at 6:05 p.m. Post your questions for Dr. Eisele here. If you post a question during the show, you will likely receive a response on-air.
If you post a question after the show, Dr. Eisele will respond on this discussion page.
You can post your questions today and all day Wednesday.
Acupuncture is pre-scientific mumbo-jumbo. There is no evidence that Qi(Chi) exists. There is no evidence that meridian lines exist. If alternative medicine actually worked, it would cease to be "alternative" and just become Medicine. Dr. Steven Novella put it this way.
"Centuries of advancement in our understanding of biology has made the notion of life energy unnecessary. Further, no one has been able to detect life energy or formulate a scientifically coherent theory as to what life energy is, where it comes from, and how it interacts with matter or other forms of energy. Within science, the vitalists lost the debate over a century ago. Without chi, there is no underlying basis for acupuncture as a medical intervention.
Recent attention given to acupuncture has attempted to bring it into the scientific fold by hypothesizing physical mechanisms for its alleged effects. For example, some proponents argue that the needles may stimulate the release of pain-killing natural chemicals, or relax tense muscles, or inhibit the conduction of pain through counter-irritation.
These potential mechanisms, while more plausible than the non-existent chi, remain speculative. Further, they would only explain a very non-specific effect of acupuncture (no better than rubbing your elbow after accidentally banging it against something hard). They might account for a temporary mild reduction in pain. Such mechanisms could not account for any of the medical claims made for acupuncture, or the alleged existence of acupuncture points.
Further, it is misleading to say that such mechanisms could explain "acupuncture." Acupuncture is the needling of acupuncture points to affect the flow and balance of chi. Using needles to mechanically produce a temporary local counter-irritation effect is not acupuncture - even though it may be an incidental consequence of this practice and may have contributed to its perceived effectiveness."
I believe that acupuncture and other alternative medicines are actually harmful, as people will seek out these practices instead of seeing a real doctor.
Yes, like you, I am skeptical about many things. I have a degree in biology and practiced law for a number of years, so I look for proof. There is a strong belief that if you can't prove it scientifically, then is does not exist. If that is the case, then nothing ever existed until it was proven scientifically. The Earth was flat for many years and the sun travelled around us, until suddenly, one day the earth was round and we travel around the sun. There once was no atomic structure, no oxygen, and our bodies ran by "magic" until we discovered that there is reasoning behnd the functions. There are no emotions, no love, and certainly, by those standards, there is no God. I could go on, but you get the point. Scientific analysis is necessary, and always developing, so that one day there may be proof of chi, and meridians, and also how the mechanisms of many pharmaceuticals work in the body. Until then, we must rely on the existing scientific studies that have been done, not proving chi, but proving the effectiveness of acupuncture, and our western drugs. Some of those studies have been done right here at UAMS, specifically on how acupuncture affects sleep.
Placebo? Maybe. But it works on animals, so you can ask them if they feel better simply because someone inserts a needle. You can also ask the hundreds of patients that have come through my office who have gotten relief, many of whom have taken pharmaceuticals for years or have have ineffective surgery or whose doctors say, "I don't know what is wrong" (which to me is one of the signs of a good doctor). No relief, but within several acupunture treatments they have seen lasting relef. Many of us wonder how it works, the scientific basis, but we rarely ask the same or our western counterparts. No, we just take the pills we have been given by our doctors, many of which are not only useful, necessary, and life-saving. (I use them, too, at the proper times, and my father is a retired surgeon. And I send patients to western docs when needed, or when I think there may be something else going on that western diagnostics can detect. We will also leave the issue of the thousands of deaths that pharmaceuticals cause each year.) So do we just think it works and therefore it does? To many of my patients,and the MILLIONS of acupuncture patients worldwide, the science is not important, but the results are.
Alternative medicine only means those medicines that we haven't traditionally used in the US. The Chinese have used this system for thousands of years, and are now doing research that stands up to western scrutiny. (They were a little hampered during the Mao years). Modern western medicine is actually very young - even less than a century ago Harvard Medical school was turning out docs that had never touched a patient. But its development and its effectiveness is amazing in many cases.
I assume that you have tried acupuncture and it did not work, or if you haven't, then hopefully you will never need it. I will also assume that you have been cured each time you have seen an allopathic doctor. However, again, the majority of my patients come to me after seeing not just one, but several doctors.
Yes, you are right in some respects, that chi and acupuncture points and meridians are not easily proven, and it does sound like mumbo-jumbo. In fact, I rarely talk about chi to my patients. The plausible mechanisms mentioned by Dr. Novella are certainly there, but ask the patients who have been rubbing their elbow for months how acupuncture helped them, and they will most likely tell you they don't care how it works. You certainly do not have to believe in acupuncture, chi, or any of that New Agey stuff, but when you are not reading Quackwatch, you might look at the reasons that the National Institute of Health and the World Health Organization have accepted acupuncture's effectiveness based on studies. Hopefully, one day we will have more science to help us understand what is actually going on. Thanks you.
Due to technical difficulties during the program last evening, I was not able to speak directly to you. You did address my question on the air but I would like additional information. My question was the effectiveness of acupuncture on trigeminal neuralgia. You indicated it could help if performed soon after diagnosis. I was diagnosed a year ago but had very few occurrences during the summer. The trigger point for my pain is cold air/wind. My goal is to keep it from progressing. I am not to the point that touch to the face or brushing my teeth is painful. Can you address questions I have such as where are needles placed, would herbal medicine help, since my case is still considered mild how many sessions would be necessary and what is approximate cost since I doubt my Blue Cross would cover it.
Hi, I replied to your comment earlier, but I do not see my response posted here. If you want to talk about your condition, please call me at 501-663-3461.
My father was diagnosed with diabetes a few years ago. He is currently having some major issues with gastroparesis. He will be well for a few weeks and then be very sick for a week. He has been hospitalized at times. Also, his blood pressure will vary wildly and is not effectively controlled by traditional medicines; in fact, his blood pressure will drop drastically just from standing up. Are there alternative medicines that could help manage these conditions? Thank you!
Since I only am trained in Acupuncture and Chinese medicine, I can't speak for all alternative medicines. I have treated cases of gastroparesis, but each patient is dfferent, so there is no way to guarantee that it will work, especially from just reading your question, and without seeing him and taking a history. However, it is certainly worth a try. Chinese medicine looks at the body in a different way than western medicine, so that perspective may shine a new light on the imbalance that is going on. Chinese medicine has been very effective in treating gastrointestinal problems,and balancing blood pressure. His present medications should definately be checked, especially if he has several doctors. Having been hospitalized for this condition, assume that they have, but sometimes something simple solves the problem.
Dr. Eisele,
Thank you for taking time to speak about your practice of acupuncture and Chinese medicine. How I wish that KUAR had alloted more time for you. I have been successfully treated for scleroderma / lupus while living in the San Diego area. I just received test results today regarding my thyroid; my TSH is 12 as a result of Hashimoto Thyroiditis. Of course, my family physician prescribed Synthroid. I am NOT comfortable with that treatment and would rather seek an effective, alternative method. Are you able to help me with Chinese medicine?
Thank you,
Mary...Hot Springs