Why are so many ethnic Chinese so sensitive on this topic? Very few Chinese lived in Tibet or XinJiang before the Chinese govt.'s policy to relocate Han Chinese to those regions, thereby making the indigenous populations minorities in their own lands. The problem is that Chinese people's sensitivity to losing face stems from a deeply rooted national inferiority complex. The question of Tibet has little bearing on our relations with ordinary Chinese people. However, it makes them feel a loss of face that their gov't. is being criticized by the world. And this loss of face, born in a deep rooted sense of inferiority prevents them from evaluating the arguments of the West in a logical manner. The true sign that the Chinese have come of age and deserve a place among the World's leading nations is when they can look at their strengths with pride and their faults with honesty. Until then, they will be held hostage by their own hubris, unable to take a meaningful leadership role in the world. You don't have to dig far to find Americans vocally opposed to their govt.'s Iraq policies or Israeli's opposed to their govt.'s Palestinian policies. But there are precious few Chinese who have the self confidence or interest to acknowledge what's going on in China's minority regions.

What the BBC reporter for The World said about China on 4/21 once again showed how the western media is sticking to a biased notion and refusing to see facts for what they are. “The western media is one sided,” they now acknowledged this after the Chinese protesting and showing undeniable evidences worldwide, “but the people in China is also one-sided, as they are under the influence of state media….” they asserted.

The fact is that People in China are NOT ONE SIDED. Most Chinese today have outgrown that age when they could only think and speak in terms of the government’s propaganda lines, let alone the young Chinese boycotting French superstore and voicing their anger over western media distortion, who are the generation growing up to be proud of being a member of global village, well informed through internet on world affairs, free-thinking and hardly paying any serious attention to the CCP propaganda all their lives, which is the past two or three decades, the most politically relaxed era in China’s recent history.

When the young man said to the reporter that people in the West don’t know things in China, he is not saying that for show, he meant every word of it. But would the West ever bother to heed?

There is also a convenient western oversight: while picking on extreme nationalist rant made by China’s netziens, does it ever dawn on the reporters that even in such
a Irrationally imperfect form the Chinese are exercising freedom of expression that many in the West claimed to have arduously championed for them? To be sure the Chinese government is not so happy about this upsurge of nationalism as every knows that that nationalism is a two-edged sword.

Olympics in China is a total loss. It should have never been granted to such a terrible government. It should have been cancelled because of environmental issues alone. My surprise is some of the Chinese people who like R2 said "take this as an attack on their Chinese-Nes" and keep talking about biased media. What is biased? are you looking at just the coverage or the truth and nature of what has been going on? Has Chinese communist government not been involved in suppressing, torturing and killing Chinese and Tibetan people (millions) over the past sixty years? Do they not completely ignore basic environmental, labor laws and treat large segments of Chinese society as modern day slaves working in sweat shops (in joint ventures of course with the western backers). Some Chinese have become wealthy but the long term health effects of all this pollution is going to be devastating to the average Chinese families which they chose to ignore and again look at it as western media bias.

I am surprised of the one chinese person commenting "I hated Chinese communist regime as my family members killed, jailed like other many Chinese suppressed by the communist." and then two lines down defending the communist regime who according to the same person killed his family members!!!

Or another chinese person commented "If authoritarian communist government is what they chose, it's none of the west's business.” I have news for you: People do not choose an "authoritarian communist government" it is forced upon them. That is the definition of an authoritarian regime. They kill you if you don't play their game which means they are not giving you a choice!!!

Comments above show some (not all) Chinese people either don’t understand what’s going on OR are selling out to save face. They don't realize they are losing face big time fast and it's not because of biased western media or anyone wanting china to become weak. It's because of their own inability to realize people's desire for freedom and taking the bribe from the communist regime in return for “staying out of politics”.

Where do you think the authority of the government come from? It's given by the people. Where do you think the several generations of communist members come from? They come from the people. They are not like the Iraqi government brought in by the Americans. All Chinese call China the "Motherland/Ancestor's land". We might accept the fact that the government acts like a mother who is responsible of taking care of her children. She also has the authority over the kids. She is surely doing a good job now. That's why you don't see a lot of rebellious kids. It might be unthinkable to you, but it's just how it is. As matter of fact, I hate my birth mother. It doesn't mean I will take your insult on her. Because she is my mother and nothing can change that.

Pansie,

Even though I don't agree with you assertions, you have the right to speak for yourself and choose dictatorship as you please (I am sure you are profiting from it!!). BUT you have no right to speak for the millions of Tibetan and Chinese people who do not want to live under the miserable conditions imposed upon them by the communist government SO don't say "WE" because you can't speak for other people.

The authority of the Chinese government came from the same place the authority of the rest of the dictatorships of the world has come from. Not through majority and consensus but through force and killings by a small minority of people who keep the rest of the population hostage to their beliefs so your argument does not fly.

Just because Chinese call China "Motherland/Ancestor's land" does not mean they like being slaves under a ruthless regime. The government of China who is running this motherland right now is the one who is insulting the Chinese people by torturing and killing millions over the years not people like me who are calling for their freedom. You can call the land your birth mother BUT you can't call the dictatorship government your birth mother. They are just bunch of greedy individuals who will do anything to stay in power and THAT IS A FACT and believe me it will change, Dictatorships always fail and freedom will prevail, I know "it might be unthinkable to you but that is just how it is".

Actually, I'm not benefitting Chinese government at all. I visited China twince in the past 20 years. What I know is every family memeber and friends that I communicated on the phone or through email tells me how happy and satisfied they are with China condition right now. They are ordinary people who has no ties to the party. I don't think you know China at all, or simply incapable of understanding it. Just like me who simply can not understand why most Americans are still worshipping God. "Hello!!! We are not made from mud. We ARE evovled from monkeys." Praying for god will not stop soldiers from getting killed, just like Allah will not take care of a terrorist's daughter when he is gone - he was needed to do that.

Back to the topic. It's a different government ever since Deng Xiaoping started reform. It's a new generation of leaders. China doesn't have a communist government of Mao. It's a capitalist government of Deng still in communist name. It's the people like you who have a selfish agenda distorting the facts and LIE IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THEIR DESPICABLE GOAL. There is no difference between saying Chinese government torturing and killing Tibetans and Bush calling WMD in Iraq. It's DARK and EVIL!

If my selfish agenda and goal of freeing people who have no voice of their own from oppression a "DESPICABLE GOAL" like you put it then let it be. We obviously disagree on everything and I'll leave it at that.

But I have a question for you: Why does a person like yourself who loves the authoritarian style of government and seems to despise everything America has to offer including the freedom of speech which your masters don't offer the people over there live here? You should move back to your beloved "Motherland" ASAP and take all the twisted thinking back with you. I am sure you will have no problem finding a job at CCP.

“Why does a person like yourself who loves the authoritarian style of government and seems to despise everything America has to offer including the freedom of speech which your masters don't offer the people over there live here? You should move back to your beloved "Motherland" ASAP and take all the twisted thinking back with you.”

It is in those words that a westerner’s condescending/patronizing attitude and utter arrogance reveals itself.

People don’t “love the authoritarian” government; rather they have to accept and live with one if history has so befallen them. But people can also affect positive change which pushes a gradual transformation of an authoritarian government. This is exactly what has ben happening in China since 1976. How many more times do the Chinese have to tell you that their personal lives have benefited from dramatic changes taking place in China in past decades and that the current government should be given credit for that? How many more times do they have to repeat that if they were to have political reform it has to be in their style, on their timetable and with their own terms? Do you know that it took 200 years for western democracy to evolve while PRC has only been around for 60 years?

Would you rather prefer a quick fix of “regime change” as what the US did for Iraq? If that is what on your mind then please keep your self-righteous “humanitarian” to yourself.

Why do you feel so offended and ask people to go back whenever your notion of authoritarian government is challenged by those who have first-hand experience of such government? Is it that you have more right to freedom of expression than people whose country of origin happened to be an authoritarian government?

"I have news for you: People do not choose an "authoritarian communist government" it is forced upon them. That is the definition of an authoritarian regime. They kill you if you don't play their game which means they are not giving you a choice!!!"

Have you ever lived in an “authoritarian communist” country? Well I have. And three generations of my family have lived in China. I suspect you are absolutely ignorant of Chinese history. There was indeed a government that that would “kill you if you don't play their game.” But it was Jiang Jieshi’s nationalist government, not the current CCP which took power from the nationalist in 1949 precisely because the corruption, ill-management and blood on its hands that caused Jiang regime to lose mandate and legitimacy. That was how the 4 billion Chinese then chose CCP as their new government. without people's support CCP would have never come into power! CCP has accomplished a great deal despite horrible mistakes made from 1949-1977, which they admitted most of them and have tried to right them. For the Chinese their government is to be of many things...
For those who are so out of touch with China today here is a radio link from Chicago's public radio: http://www...ioID=17615

Thank you very much for responding with the official line of the CCP (your employer) Mr. Agent.

First of all yes I have lived in an “authoritarian Non-communist” country, all the same. That's why I recognize the smell from miles way!! Your version of history of CCP is so wrong it's comical!! So according to your made up version: The CCP does not have the blood of the millions of Chinese on their hands. They did not starve, torture and kill millions of Chinese. The Chinese people loved all the torturing and murdering stuff so much that all 4 billions of them (!) totally freely keep choosing the CCP as their government... And then they all lived happily ever after, Woooww... I guess even though people have so many choices in China, somehow everyone over and over again choose the very same good people of CCP!!! Kind of like magic. you are way off on the numbers too pal since there are not 4 billion Chinese in the world!!!

Oh yeah I forgot, you said "they (CCP) made horrible mistakes from 1949-1977, which they admitted most of them". So I suppose the Tiananmen Square Massacre IN 1989 never happened either, it was all our imagination since We are absolutely ignorant of Chinese history!!! Who is ignorant now Mr. Agent?

As I said all of these dictatorships like the one you work for are the same. I lived under one. They commit unspeakable horrors against their own people and they employ people LIKE YOU to twist the truth and betray their own people. Well next time, twist the truth a little less so people won't laugh so much reading your comments!!!

Calling people whose views you are opposed "CCP Agent" is so cheap and childish.
Do you call those, tens of thousands of overseas Chinese and students, who took streets to show their supports to Olympics and protest against Western media bias worldwide all Chinese government's "agents” as well?

If your hatred of China and of CCP cannot allow you to think clear after listening to that American Professor said in that interview from the link I posted here http://www...ioID=17615 (a well balanced view based on well documented research), I suggest you go to China and talk to the people on streets, even to some liberal rightist intellectuals and dissidents. Find out the truth and how ordinary Chinese see their government, their life now and their future for yourselve.

No matter how bitter and anguish your personal experience with the dictatorship might have made you (I know someone just like you and you have my sympathies) an objective view of reality is something to start with, if you have any lofty cause to pursue. If million of people would not agree with you, then you have to respect their choice and wait. As a matter of fact, since the 1990s the Chinese people have been so indifferent to the overseas Chinese political dissidents like Harry Wu and Chai Ling, because they think the dissidents know little about China and care even less about her people when they called for Western economic sanction against China, which, lofty and morally gratifying to some, would hurt the interests of China and millions of Chinese people. As long as the CCP can do a good job improving people’s living standard, the unwritten contract between them and the people will be unlikely cancelled. More political reform will be an inevitable agenda once people is ready and when the government has effectively solved many urgent social and economic issues resulted from China’s capitalist rampage in past decades which threatened instability.

For your information, according to a US independent survey on Chinese and American people's attitude toward their government (in terms of job performance such as the raising of living standard) done by The Committee of 100, the Chinese government got 80% approval while American government got 40%. Why should the Chinese people overthrow such a government just because people like you would like them to do now and who would you suggest in replacement of the CCP right now? Is not true that the Chai Lings who called for blood in the students demonstration in Tiananman Square have given up her or his democratic cause and made millions in their pockets somewhere in the West ( mostly from dealings with China)?

here is insightful view for the "Democratically pious and morally righteous" crowd:

"Coffee sippers who think it might be a good idea to free Tibet from China are about 58 years too late. China is not going to free Tibet, and Western encouragement of Tibetan resistance will only get people killed needlessly.

Tibet was part of China for centuries. In 1913, when China seemed to be falling apart, the British Empire encouraged Tibet to declare its independence. It did, and that lasted until 1950, when, at the end of the Chinese civil war, China invaded and reclaimed the area. By then, the impotent British Empire was in no position to help anyone even if it had been so inclined. America chose to do nothing.

If you are not willing to make your way to the Tibetan plateau and face Chinese guns and prisons, then you certainly should not sit around some coffee shop and urge Tibetans to do so. Tibet is a strategic area of China, and the Chinese government is not going to give it up or grant it independence or even autonomy. To paraphrase a famous outlaw, it is enough that we know that China will do what it has to do.

As for us, we should do nothing. Tibet is part of China, and what happens there is an internal affair of China. The rest of the world has no right to interfere, and other than bloviating for a while, I seriously doubt that it will. Unfortunately, in this age of global communications even bloviating can cause bad things to happen to people.

Boycotting the Olympics is a foolish idea by a tiny minority of fanatics. The Olympics have nothing to do with Tibet, just as they had nothing to do with the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Boycotting the games would be a cruel blow to athletes who have been sweating and training for four years. It would accomplish nothing. It would further politicize the games, which should be encouraged to return to their amateur status.

China was awarded the Summer Games in a fair international competition and has spent a lot of money getting ready for them. Any attempt to spoil the games will do a great disservice to the athletes, the Chinese government and the Chinese people. It will do nothing positive and will only harden attitudes and end up making the world even more dangerous than it already is.

Americans in particular should keep in mind that we are currently engaged in mismanaging two occupations of two countries that we illegally invaded. Neither enterprise is going well. Neither is our economy. In short, we have enough on our own plate without trying to steal a bite off of China’s plate. We should make sure that Afghanistan and Iran are the last wheezes of the sick American Empire and shut it down and return to our republic.

I don’t know why some Americans seem to have trouble realizing that the days of the European empires are over. Part of the problem is that we have way too many vocational intellectuals and way too few real intellects. A vocational intellectual is someone who makes a living writing or talking. Such people tend to live inside their heads. Delusions of grandeur and fantasies about the real world are constant occupational hazards for such people.

No country in the world has to do what we tell it to do. Certainly that’s the case with the big powers like China, Russia, Japan and India. As you can see every day in your morning paper, even a little country like Iraq can cause us more trouble than it’s worth. It’s a crime against humanity that our sons and daughters are dying in the desert dust while fat politicians cavort about in Washington. Don’t encourage Tibetans to die in some futile fantasy about independence. They are not independent. They are part of China, and part of China they will stay."

I am far from being a a coffee sniper or a vocational intellectual. As you may know there are two versions of the Tibet-China history and Tibetan version supports their argument (both versions are more are in the next link):

http://www...ews.htm#do

In any case, people like me are not encouraging Tibetans to "die in some futile fantasy about independence" like you put it. It's the other way around meaning Tibetans are asking us for help. We are answering their calls for help by exposing the Chinese regime for what it is. The Tibetans will continue their fight regardless of what we do. Our voice will just help them. You can not with good conscious ignore that and simply say we should do nothing. Staying quite helps China murder more people not less. History has shown that nothing is hacked in stone so I don't agree that "They are part of China, and part of China they will stay." All that can change.

I do have a feel for the Olympics athletes though since I have been an athlete all my life and I do wish things were different and the Olympics were somewhere else. The truth is the Olympics have always had a political tone to it going back decades to Berlin Olympics. All athletes know "Enter at you own risk" on this one.

Also I agree with you in regards to terrible mistakes US has made with Iraq and Afghanistan but we can't let actions of the Bush administration who constantly lies to the American people stop us from answering calls of help from Tibetans otherwise we are not who we say we are.

I am all for the international communities to put more pressures on human rights violations on any government, including the Chinese government. But we should admit that the Free Tibet issue is far more complex as it appears to be and needs to be seen and examined in contextualized situations and in historical and international perspectives.

For anyone who wants to be more open minded on the issue besides tuning into Free Tibet’s official web site here is a list of information in paper publications or on internet.

1. A. Tom Grunfeld, book “The Making of Modern Tibet” and “A History of Tibet”. A. Tom Grunfeld is SUNY Distinguished Teaching Professor at Empire State College, of the State University of New York, and specializes in the teaching of modern East Asian history with an emphasis on China and Tibet. His wife is Tibetan and he is fluent in Tibetan language. He has been traveling and living in that region since 1966, with extensive field research with both the exile government and Tibet Autonomous Region. He and Prof. Melvyn C. Goldstein have been considered the two foremost experts on Tibet in US.

2. Melvyn C. Goldstein, book “The Snow Lion and the Dragon: China, Tibet, and the Dalai Lama”,“A History of Modern Tibet, 1913-1951: The Demise of the Lamaist State”, “A History of Modern Tibet, volume 2: The Calm before the Storm: 1951-1955” and “Buddhism in Contemporary Tibet: Religious Revival and Cultural Identity”. Melvyn C. Goldstein is Professor and Chairman of Department of Anthropology, and Director of the Center for Research on Tibet at Case Western Reserve University, US.

3. Michael Parenti, “Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth http://www...Tibet.html Michael Parenti is award winning writer and political scientist.
4. Barrry Sautman: TIBET: TRUTH VS. MYTH
http://fra...ID=2187567 Barry Sautman is a associate professor of sociology at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology.

5. Pamela Logon: Politically Incorrect http://alu.../unpc.html Pamela Logon is the founder and executive director of Kham Aid (www.khamaid.org), an NGO assists rural development, environmental and cultural conservation in Kham region (where the inhabitants are mostly Tibetan).

6. The Unusual Suspect, by Hilary Keenan, http://21stcenturysocialism.com/

7. Kenneth Conboy and James Morrison, The CIA's Secret War in Tibet (Lawrence, Kansas: University of Kansas Press, 2002); and William Leary, "Secret Mission to Tibet," Air & Space, December 1997/January 1998.

8. http://www...70146.pdf, “Questions pertaining to Tibet, 1969-1972”, de-classified US government document regarding CIA support of the Dalai Lama.

9. Documentary “Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden” by Swiss Public Television
http://www...5sOm-uQH9Y
http://www...boblx-0zAs
http://www...1dILwsmwCQ

10. The Shadow of The Dalai Lama: Sexuality, Magic and Politics in Tibetan Buddhism, by Victor and Victoria Trimondi, http://www.../links.htm

Please read this excellent observation by German Film maker
[Interview with the renowned German best-seller author, documentary film producer and Asia specialist Frank Sieren, who's been living in China for nearly one and a half decades.]
(Freitag) The West has ceased to impress China a long time ago. April 4, 2008.
[translated by Wild Goose Journal from German into English]
Q: Is Tibet becoming a turning point for Chinas development?
A: It's not a turning point, but simply a tragedy. It seems that most
of the individuals involved have lost sight of the concerns of the
Tibetan people. We may debate about their degrees of involvement in
this disaster, but we should name them first: The government in
Beijing with its relentless, excessive policy of assimilation; then
the Dalai Lama as the head of an exile government, who time and again
tries to politicize his meetings with Western politicians, thus to
suggest latitude which doesn't really exist when it comes to the
crunch.
Q: But there are also other players...
A: If you are talking about the young rioters - they remind me rather
of their contemporaries in the burning suburbs of Paris than of
the demonstrators in Tiananmen Square in 1989. With their senseless
violence against Chinese retailers they have created tailwind for the
hardliners in Beijing and brought the majority of the Chinese totally
against themselves. On the issue of Tibet, the position of the Chinese
leadership coincides with that of the large popular majority. We in
the West tend to sweep this fact under the carpet.
Q: How do you assess the position of the German government?
A: Chancellor Merkel, who's taken the risk of provoking the Chinese
leadership with her reception of the Dalai Lama, in order to score
political points domestically with a romantic sentiment towards Tibet
that has never existed in Tibet itself, has sent careless signals to
the Tibet movement, promising far more than she can hold. Now she's
burnt her fingers, Merkel won't be receiving the Dalai Lama again. In
this crowd of egomaniacs, we also shouldn't forget the great number of
Western journalists, blended by their own self-overestimation, with
their sometimes manipulative, agitating reports.
Q: Wasn't the rebellion in the oppressed Tibet just due?
A: The question must be, was it useful? Anyone who knows even a little
about the Chinese leadership would come to the conclusion that there's
never been the slightest chance for a rebellion to turn things to the
better. The result is shocking and it was foreseeable. Tibet's
latitude was never narrower than today, and it will stay this way for
the foreseeable time. And the threat of boycotting the Olympics
doesn't help, neither. The reformers within the leadership who propose
a more liberal handling of Tibet cannot score points; the hardliners
who claim the West is using Tibet to destabilize China see themselves
in upwind. The more wildly the West gesticulate, the narrower the
latitude for the reformers. We tend to forget that the greatest
changes in the Middle Kingdom have always come from within.
Q: When people in the West talk about China, there's always either
great euphoria or total aversion. Why such extremes?
A: Because there's an epochal change taking place. Ever since the
discovery of America by Columbus the West has dominated. Wherever
the conquerors went, they were able to force the people to play by
their rules. Now, that's no longer tenable. Nations like China are
going their own and very successful way. Many in the West are
fascinated by that dynamics, by the modernity, by how fast those
people are able to leave poverty behind them.
Q: And how is the aversion to explain?
A: At about the end of the nineties the fear came along - the worry of
having to share, the worry that our financial margins would decrease;
that resources would become more and more expensive, and our values
would loose importance; that more and more jobs would drift to China
or Asia and our social standards would no longer sustainable.
Q: Aren't those fears justified?
A: They would be if you believe because of our own natural supremacy
we don't have to do anything. We have to consider what we can still
manufacture in the West and what we no longer can; which of our values
are convincing, which not. What's new is that we can no more simply
command when it comes to the question of what we consider good and
right, instead we have to persuade and compromise. We have to
reposition our way of thinking. That's difficult and it will take a
few generations.
Q: And what if that doesn't succeed?
A: Then we will fare similarly as the nobility of the nineteenth
century. It succumbed to the deceptive belief that the uprising of the
new class were a win-win development. But their exclusive position
could not hold. In hindsight we see it as a natural development. More
and more people were able to participate in decision-making and
advance. What happened then on the level of national states are now
taking place on a global level. And because we are affected ourselves,
our imagination isn't reaching far enough. Future generations,
likewise, will see the relativization of the West as normal and
desirable.
Q: Are we doomed to fall?
A: No. My only concern is that due to our arrogance and self-assurance
we wouldn't take on this issue. It's strange - watching from afar, the
Germans don't appear to be self-doubting, but rather tend to consider
themselves the center of the world's civilization.
Q: Do the Chinese see us that way?
A: The young outgoing Chinese for instance are amazed that we have a
democracy that is thwarting itself - one that hardly allows progress
because it's stuck in the unbelievably complex process of finding
compromises.
Q: Does it mean authoritative regimes like the Chinese one are better
equipped for today's challenges?
A: It simply means that there are badly functioning democracies and
well functioning dictatorships. Even though we don't like it, China is
by far the most successful development project in the latest history
of the world, and it isn't surpassing its peak for a long time yet.
Never before has so many people wrest themselves from poverty.
Q: How do you explain this ascent?
A: To put it blatantly, there are three methods to gain power in the
world: merchandises, arms and values. Value is a jurisdiction for the
Pope or the Islam. The traditional method is the force of arms - war.
However, since the fifties of the twentieth century, that has become
less and less promising - what an incredible advancement! The Korean
War was a turning point - it ended with a stalemate. Almost all wars
raised by the Americans after that either failed or ended without a
clear victory. Slowly it shows that in an era of globalization,
cleverly built trade relationships promise more political influence
than military actions. That's what the Chinese have specialized on -
partly due to weakness, because their army is antiquated, and partly
due to cleverness, because they are traditionally good merchants. They
don't conquer, but create dependencies - containers don't come across
as threatening.
Q: How does it work?
A: They have developed two methods. One I'd like to call the
"concubine economics". Because with their combination of size, price
and logistical agility, they offer the best manufacturing conditions
worldwide for things ranging from bathing shoes to airplanes, they can
afford to pick whom they want to work with. Western businesses have to
court their Chinese partners like the concubines once did their
emperor. The concubine economics brings China the world's highest
foreign investment of more than 60 billion US dollars each year and
the highest trade surplus of nearly 300 billion. The second method is
the "Mother Courage economics". The Chinese help mismanaged
countries, like those in Africa, by building their infrastructures
cheap and fast and then running them, in order to receive long-term
resource contracts in return. If the customer is satisfied - which
usually is the case - long-term political alliances emerge across
continents, shifting the global structures in favor of the developing
countries.
Q: Do you have an example?
A: Take Nigeria. The Chinese say, you have a railway built by the
British and out of maintenance for a hundred years. We'll invest 8
billion US dollars in those tracks. We don't do it out of
selflessness, for we want to buy your minerals and we'll have to
transport them. You can decide for yourselves whether half of the
workers will be locals or only a third. If you insist on half, it will
take twice as long.
Q: You have written that the Chinese are dictators towards the inside
and democrats towards the outside. What do you mean by that?
A: What they want towards the inside is - partly out of conviction
that this were crucial for China's stability, partly for the sake of
power preservation - that democracy be introduced as late as possible.
Towards the outside, the Chinese leadership is already saying, we
represent 1.3 billion people, and we advocate a new world order in
which the original principle by the Europeans apply: "one man, one
vote". In this sense they are the advocates of the largest
co-determination movement in the human history.
Q: How can the Chinese people itself gain influence?
A: Through an unwritten contract with their leadership. If it fails to
improve people's lives, the contract will be cancelled and people will
take it to the street: 10, 20 or 100 million of them. That would be
something different than a rebellion in Tibet, which altogether is of
no importance to China. The fear of such an eruption forces the
leadership to exert itself. It's a mistake to think dictators wouldn't
be under any pressure.
Q: So, are you talking about the breaking point where the China
project could fail?
A: The big question is whether China manages to develop an economic
system that doesn't consume as much resources as it's happening with
us. The Chinese are standing in front of the challenge which even the
West was unable or unwilling to solve. And we should do whatever we
can to help, instead of pointing fingers at China, for a Chinese
environmental disaster would affect all of us. Also crucial would be
the question whether they manage to gradually allow more participation
in decision-making, because in the end that has to be there. However,
it would be certainly unwise to introduce a democracy to the Western
standard.
Q: Why?
A: Because you can only campaign on the same level as the voters, so a
whole bunch of little Maos would be running. A large portion of the
rural population is very traditional. There would speeches to make our
hair stand on end, and then I'd like to read the Western media reports
on that.
Q: In other words, many Chinese are not yet ready for a democracy?
A: The difficult task is to find the right moment for the introduction
of democracy.
Q: How do the young generations see it?
A: The young Chinese have an almost post-modern relationship to
politics, like many young people in Germany. They say, what do I care
about this circus, I'm the captain of my own life and that's that.
Interviewer: Marcus Engler

Here is someone who has the depth to understand China. I completely agree with him, even on the dirty side of China. I hope for China's democracy but in its own style, on its own time table with its own terms. Chinese study hard and learn fast. They are smarter than most westerner given them credit for, ignoring the fact of high number of graduate Chinese students in American universities. They are MATERILIST WHO DOESN'T HAVE ILLUSIONS. They know that ONLY Chinese will make choices that's truly good for China. They will not listen to people who are not friendly. Like it or not, Tibetan pretests and western bias might just be the stimulant to empower the Chinese to make China a tougher and more influencial superpower. I do think the west needs to be worried. BEWARE!

Well in case you all missed it, The Chinese finally got the peaceful uninterrupted torch relay they were wishing for...in PYONGYANG, North Korea today where thousands of poor brainwashed North Koreans stood around waving flags!!! This is what the spirit of Olympics is really all about isn’t it?!!! What a joke this torch relay is turning out to be.

This is the kind of world the Chinese government and some of the people commenting here are talking about, just close your eyes to all the atrocities and don't say anything bad. Real world is not working out that way for China Olympics though. I bet there is going to be a lot more bad exposure to come for China before, during and after the games no matter how much covering up and spin the Chinese government and the its shameless backers who are commenting here try to put on it. The cat is out of the bag people.

I didn't know that the cat that was out of the bag who started the fight knew anything about shame. Some politician said recently, "If you get enough punches threw at you, you start to punch back." I'm simply a surburban stay-at-home mom who was the most pro-America Chinese you would ever meet. I had $50 in my pocket and came to US alone with the help of my boy friend in 1990. I finished college with financial aid and graduate school with assistantship. I became an American citizen with proud and joy in 2000. I openly stated with my Chinese friends that I have no love for China and was scolded by many for not teaching my kids Chinese. The unfairness and hostility towards Chinese and China in the past couple of months offended and enraged me. If I, a pro-American, am offended, you should know that you have the whole China offended. If I'm fighting back, you should know you have all the ethnic Chinese all over the world fighting back. Chinese are quiet and peace loving people. Does Confucius and Tao Zi ring a bell instead of Napoleon, Hitler, and British Empire? We are not perfect. Who is? Blaming the current Chinese government for the millions died in the culture revolution is like blaming the next US president for the Chaos and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilian death caused by the US invasion.

I have the time to speak up. I can speak for a lot of Chinese because I know a lot of them. I'm fighting for peace and justice in the world. I'm proud of myself! You can say "Oh, Yeh, Yeh!" But you know what. I have been to both world, the east and the west. I have seen it all.

I think another reason for westerner's hostility towards China is for communist's atheist belief. A world can beautiful in THE MATRIX. However painful it can be, the Chinese are unplug from it by the communists. I still think they did me a favor. I'm glad the Christian church recognizes that the earth goes around the sun not vise versa. Chinese need time to craft their country and political system. Religious followers need time to unplug themselves from the Matrix of God, Ahllah or Buddah. There is nothing human about sending 1/3 of the boy population into temples when they are just a few-years old, brainwash them into monks and deprive them basic human needs. Have anyone thought about that?

This is a fascinating discussion and I am very glad it is taking place. I am a non religious person who has lived in several countries including japan, middle east, europe and currently in america and speak three languages. I can't honestly say I have seen it all, as a matter of fact everyday I realize there is so much to see and so much to learn. As a self proclaimed citizen of the world who believes in no borders for all, I find myself on both sides of this argument but more on the so called western side. Here are my points:

A) I agree with the lady above that moderate chinese are outraged as many of my chinese friends who I love dearly feel offended by this whole event. They feel the spot light has been unfairly taken away from all the efforts the chinese people put in the Olympics and focused on tibet which they feel is part of china and been helped by china.

B) My very few tibetan friends who I love dearly are very sad the spot light has been taking away from their quest for freedom by chinese who they perceive as aggressors and wrongly focused on western media biased and anti chinese sentiment in the world. One interesting point here, you hardly see any tibetans in this forum and many chinese which confirms the strength in numbers chinese enjoy: 6 million vs. 1.2 billion.

C) I disagree with the lady above about chinese being quite and peace loving people. I believe there are quite and peace loving people everywhere but human race as a whole is not peace loving at all. History of man proves to have wars and atrocities committed by all races and chinese are no exception to that. She compares the great chinese philosophers Confucius and Tao Zi ring to Napoleon, Hitler, and British Empire. Fair comparisons should be made with philosophers from other countries such as Aristotle or Nietzsche not military leaders, mass murderers and empires. And the next president of the US should be blamed for the Chaos in Iraq if he is a republican and that's why people associate the chinese government with deaths and events such as tianamen square massacre because they are from the same and the only party in china.

D) I find this to be a mistake by chinese people to lump sum any opposition to their view as western opposition. There is no distinction between different countries and peoples at all. Chinese right now call everybody "West". France, Germany, England, Netherlands, Italy and America are very different countries with different languages, cultures and history and to lump sum as one and call them "West" is as much insult and a racist view as chinese claim the so called west has taken toward them. It’s like referring to Genghis Khan, Khmer Rouge and the Japanese’s empire “Chinese” or china. I also meet people from middle east, south america or japan who disagree with chinese views on this subject.

E) I find the argument about “one reason for hostility toward China is coming from communist's atheist belief “very valid in certain places. People in certain european countries, middle east, south america and also in US are very religious and they simply don't like people who don't