http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/23402.page Public Action
We wrongly opened a can of worms. I don't think the vote in Nov will change anything no matter who is elected. So I'm cutting McCain some slack. Although the "occupation" of Iraq is not a war. It was never declared and it is a lie to call a military police occupation a war. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#994868 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#994868 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#990051 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#990051 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#990029 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#990029 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#988036 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#988036 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#1042231 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#1042231 GMT this way you will just have to worry about ie`s and rockets but if you control the roads and the air you will cut off their supply lines weakening them day by day

semper fidelis]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#987456 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#987456 GMT
question: why, if we are incurring huge debt because of (among other reasons) the war, are we CUTTING taxes? this is irresonsible. how is this "conservative"? these hypocrites have hijacked a word that once meant something. it's about time that real conservatives (that would include having a conscience, not just flag-stickers on one's car) reject them and their facile super-power-ism!]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#982425 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#982425 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#982423 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#982423 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#975651 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#975651 GMT I was sorely disappointed in the following years, disappointed with a President who followed an agenda based on personal goals, one who followed an agenda to continue the pursuit of a false ideal. I was and am sorely disappointed in my country, as it is obvious now to our citizens and the world that our technology is useless in the face of committed persons, our intelligence is faulty or is altered in the pursuit of personal agendas, and our leaders are willng to sacrifice our economy for the continued ideals of the few.
I see our standard of living crumbling; too many of our children, seniors, and working class without medical care, adequate housing, or the ability to afford higher education.
I see the world disappointed and angry at our country. I feel this has created a greater threat to our security and has burdened generations to come with debt and inflation.
signed: Disappointed in Oregon
]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#974023 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#974023 GMT
After 9/11, we went into Afghanistan with the blessing of the world and Rumsfeld starting making monumental blunders. The first was listening to the northern warlords when they called for a temporary cease fire which allowed Bin Laden to escape into Pakistan. After taking out the Taliban, Rumsfeld forgot about Afghanistan and concentrated on Iraq. That's why the war in Afghanistan is ongoing and escalating.

The invasion and "war" in Iraq was over in a week. It was the aftermath that was not considered or planned for. The looting and destruction went unfettered. Baghdad fell into chaos and all control was lost. There were not enough troops to secure the city, much less the country. Another Rumsfeld blunder. With the exception of the Curds, who were organized and immediately began setting up governmental infrastructure, the rest of the country remained in chaos and after five years it doesn't look like these people are capable of settling their religious and territorial differences to form a viable country, much less a democracy. So five years later we are dealing with the "aftermath" that the Bush administration had no plan for.

Were there WMD's? No. Were the Iraqi people ready to self govern? No. Did the Bush administration think past shock and awe? Obviously not. We should never have gone into Iraq without finishing the job in Afghanistan first. But hindsight is always 20/20. America was in it's own shock and awe of 9/11. Remember the mindset of the American people after that attack. We are in a war on terrorism. Anyone who doesn't believe that is a fool.

We can't undo the debacle of invading Iraq. But we can't walk away and leave that country vulnerable either. For all of you who believe our goal in Iraq was about oil, then I ask you why the American taxpayer is footing the bill for rebuilding that country. Why are their oil revenues not paying for their infrastructure and creation of jobs for the people there?

Finally, for those of you who are ashamed to be an American, and who compare our national treasure of young men and women who have and are still sacrificing with those who commit unspeakable acts of terror against innocent people, shame on you! The families of those who gave their lives, and the veterans who have lost body parts and will never be the same, do not need to hear your hateful voices. These young people are the bravest and the best of America. They deserve our respect and honor.

From the beginning, I believed we were heading into another Vietnam. I vividly remember how our troops, who had been to hell and back, were treated by the American public when they returned. If you want to be ashamed of anyting, be ashamed of that! America is the greatest country in the world and our people are the most caring and generous on earth. There have been poor administrations as well as great ones throughout our history, but in my long life I have never seen such hatred of America by Americans. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#974014 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#974014 GMT
I, like most posters, was opposed to this war before it began, but realized before the first bomb fell that I would not be willing to pull out and wash my hands of the mess that the majority of the country vated for. We will be paying for Cheney's arrogance and Bush's childishness for decades.

If W. were a Texan, he would have known that. He would have remembered John Wesley Hardin and how effective he was in disrupting the Jayhawk Governor that ruled after the War of Northern Aggression and he would have known that there are still those who curse the name of Jim Lane in the South he would have understood how long hatred last through generations.

But, W. was the sone of carpet bagging northerners who thought that they were loved as liberators.

Cheney has been a very effective life insurance policy for him.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#1008437 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#1008437 GMT
When the U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003 I was in London. The next day almost a million protestors filled the parks. I had just started a 10 day vacation and was quite afraid for my safety. The great thing about Europeans, I found, is that they actually allowed for some discussion before making a quick rush to judgement of me. When they heard I was opposed to any of this, they were always very nice.

Iraq was never a threat to the U.S. There were no "Al'Quida" in Iraq (Saddam saw to that). We have still no clue where Osama bin Laden is. Our entire economy is being impacted by this expensive Haliburton windfall. BUT, worst of all we are closing in on losing our 4,000th dedicated American Hero. I pray that the ghost of every soldier and innocent Iraqi citizen haunts George Bush, Dick Cheney and all of our"secret" National Energy Commisioners for the rest of their lives!
MichaelS.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972644 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972644 GMT The terrorists have won. Capitalism IS being defeated, painfully, slowly and efficiently. Millions of Americans will be permanently hurt or in fact die from the depression we are falling rapidly and hopelessly toward.
Thank you George Bush. You have become the terrorist. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972641 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972641 GMT
I'm astonished that every American is not outraged at the 90,000 documented (and up to 700,000 undocumented) Iraqi civilian deaths, not to mention the 3,000+ American lives lost. If you still think the invasion was a good idea, if you still believe that Iraq had anything to do with the horrible events of 9/11, if you believed Saddam had WMDs despite all the evidence to the contrary, if you still ignore the evidence and believe the fairy tale that Al Qaeda was in Iraq before 2003, then shame on you.

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Paul Wolfowitz should be tried as war criminals. Their hubris has heaped untold death and misery on the civilians of Iraq.
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Pete in Eagan]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972634 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972634 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972619 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972619 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972618 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972618 GMT
War is serious business. There must be a clear definition of what is and is not war. For the concept of war to have political, cultural, military, legal and ethical meaning, war must be defined as a state of conflict between state actors. This means there must be armies, representing two nations, in conflict over something that can be defined. State actors mean men and women in uniforms, it means certain rules of engagement and, crucially, special ethical and legal conditions that must be clearly justified. We did go to war against the sovereign state of Iraq 5 years ago. We toppled a regime, turned out their leader, and vanquished their army. After that, the "war" was over. No more armies, no uniforms, no justification for the special "war powers" that obtain to the executive and judiciary branches.

The question posed in this forum illustrates a widespread failure of the media, to question the intentional blurring of lines between war, and what we actually have in Iraq (which cannot under any reasonable definition of war, be called war). Perhaps if the media were to start using another word, we could finally acknowledge what must be true; the war, whether right or wrong, is over. Now what?]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972617 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972617 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972297 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972297 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972296 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972296 GMT chance to get Bin Laiden but we let him get away to Pakistan when Bush didn't have the courage to send US rangers and instead relied on Afgan fighters, some of whom helped Bin Laiden to escape. The war in Iraq is a civil war pitting Sunni against Shites. al-Queda wasn't there until we invaded Iraq, again read the 9/11 Commission report. There is no War on Terror it's an invention of the Bush administration and the US military to justify their bankrupt policies and drive fear into an ignorant population whom I am sorry to say includes you! ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972621 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972621 GMT The September 11 terrorists were all from Saudi Arabia. Then why did we attack Iraq?
We were in Afghanistan to find Osama Bin Ladin, instead of that why did we slow down operations and direct our army towards Iraq?
The Bush presidancy sold lies to the American people. It used the fear and anguish of the September 11 attacks for their own agenda. It occupied a country without proper planning. It put the lives of countless American soldiers in danger. Ultimately the American people will pay the price. The soldiers who died, their families, the soldiers who are currently fighting everyday, their families and the stress that they go through everyday worrying about their loved ones. Was any of that really necessary.
Lastly, Barack Obama was mentioned as being naive regarding the realities of war. Barack Obama is the only person who talks of bringing people together. Bringing our enemies to the table is not a sign of weakness, but a sign of great strength. Diplomacy is a better solution than bombs and destruction. America needs to build it's reputation again. We can spread the message of freedom by example and not by invasion. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972314 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972314 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972287 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972287 GMT - John in Dallas]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972261 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972261 GMT As far as 'fixing' Iraq, the first sep is to surrender the illusion of control. This will never happen with the infantile ego driven approach of the present administration, and not under John McCain. Giving up the illusion of control would require a huge diplomatic approach. We need allies from the region, Europe, and Asia. Despite the smiles at photo ops, few, if any world leaders trust George W. Bush. A leader like Obama has a chance of convincing world leaders that building a real democracy and achieving peace in Iraq is important to every nation in the world, and Obama has the humility necessary to give up this illusion of control. ]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972246 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972246 GMT http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972242 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972242 GMT
At some point we are going to have to leave. When we do, even if it is later rather than sooner, we will have a very hard time claiming any kind of victory. Though I hope it is done with a lot more forethought and planning than the original invasion, I am very anxious to see this war finished as soon as possible.]]> http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972236 http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/theworld/posts/list/896415.page#972236 GMT


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